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Wing Commander III

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Re: Wing Commander III

#41

Post by lovegoblin »

bentcorner wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Owned it. It was campy fun even then but WCII and WC:Privateer were far and away the better games. III was one of many attempts at a game-movie crossover that never really worked imho. Privateer is the basis of EVE online, Star Citizen and countless other modern titles. In terms of influence it is up there with SimCity and Civilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer

Privateer was a lot of fun. I remember playing it and the sequel. I'd be interested to see more behind-the-scenes of Privateer 2. It also had FMV and (from what I recall) had this sort of campy sci-fi TV movie feel. Great game, although I'm hesitant to look at it without the lens of nostalgia.

> Privateer was a lot of fun.

You'd probably be interested in Rebel Galaxy Outlaw (2019). It's extremely Privateer-influenced.

Re: Wing Commander III

#42

Post by poisonborz »

I really miss actual movie cutscenes. Good graphics and cheaper mocap, and the general notion that we see the same characters led game studios believe they were a better option. I still think actual actors are hundred percent better at delivering a story. We don't need to uphold this belief that in-game scenes were "real", in the way that an actual movie cutscene would hurt the "magic" - it would actually make it much more realistic. It would be even - again - rewarding to work through a storyline to finally get a new cutscene. With all the cheap greenscreen tech, I wish there would be be a trend of movie cutscenes coming back.

Re: Wing Commander III

#43

Post by benlivengood »

cgriswald wrote: post #6

I've lost something. When I was a kid, buying a new game was nearly impossible; If I was lucky, I'd get one for a birthday present or a Christmas gift. Occasionally a cool friend would lend me a copy of something. For a very short time, I lived about a mile away from a video game rental store and I'd sometimes be able to convince an adult I was responsible enough to return the game and spend my own money renting a ga…

As adults we've found higher payoff/cost activities and generally, at least for me, other people are more interesting than games. I never saw that coming.

EDIT: not to say that I don't still enjoy games, but games have to either be really fascinating (factorio, surviving mars, city skylines) on a technical level, be social (multiplayer minecraft with my kids), or emotionally engaging (some RPGs, but usually only one playthrough)

Re: Wing Commander III

#44

Post by lessthanseventy »

skohan wrote: post #19
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Owned it. It was campy fun even then but WCII and WC:Privateer were far and away the better games. III was one of many attempts at a game-movie crossover that never really worked imho. Privateer is the basis of EVE online, Star Citizen and countless other modern titles. In terms of influence it is up there with SimCity and Civilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer

I believe it was WCII which had a framerate which was dependent on the speed of the processor. I remember trying to play it some years after it came out, and you literally couldn't understand what was happening on screen because it was too fast.

That's what the turbo button was for.

Re: Wing Commander III

#45

Post by zelon88 »

cgriswald wrote: post #6

I've lost something. When I was a kid, buying a new game was nearly impossible; If I was lucky, I'd get one for a birthday present or a Christmas gift. Occasionally a cool friend would lend me a copy of something. For a very short time, I lived about a mile away from a video game rental store and I'd sometimes be able to convince an adult I was responsible enough to return the game and spend my own money renting a ga…

They have lost some of the magic I think. I remember as a child doing something similar with games. Back then I wasn't as skilled with games, and as a kid in the 90s it wasn't common to ask your mom or dad to "beat this level for you" because they were often worse than you.

So I'd just play the same levels over and over again. It would take me years to eventually beat Wing Commander 2 and 3. But it wasn't repetitive because I didn't feel any pressure to actually beat the game. I think I was actually more invested in exploring the logic of the game and creating imaginative storylines instead of actually getting invested in the game.

This one alternate mode of play contrasts to my kids where they seem to have two modes of play. One where they do the same thing and just explore game mechanics while dying over and over, and another where they actually want to make forward progress and often reach out for help. Luckily my generation is more acclimated to this type of interaction so we help out where in the past we would just struggle along or get sidetracked.

Re: Wing Commander III

#46

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

afavour wrote: post #36
allenu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot going on here. Some of it is just general maturity and experience. Things that were novel when you were a child wear off when you're older. Those achievements that you aimed for as a child (having 'perfect' gameplay) may seem less meaningful when you're an adult, especially in the context of other real world achievements. The loss of "novelty", to me, one of the most challenging things about agi…

Seconding this. I think the game that most set my world alight as a kid was Star Control II. It was a wonderfully realised world of spaceships, alien races, battles and a sprawling story line. It blew my mind. But if I was presented with a game of similar magnitude today I'd have a pretty muted reaction. (I also probably wouldn't have time to play it!). I feel the same way about many things, like (to keep on the spac…

> But if I was presented with a game of similar magnitude today I'd have a pretty muted reaction

Or maybe not. I'm yet to see any modern game that would even remotely approach the magnitude of SC2. So far, the closest competitor was the original Mass Effect game, itself clearly influenced by Star Control games, but even it failed to surpass it.

Re: Wing Commander III

#47

Post by david422 »

cgriswald wrote: post #6

I've lost something. When I was a kid, buying a new game was nearly impossible; If I was lucky, I'd get one for a birthday present or a Christmas gift. Occasionally a cool friend would lend me a copy of something. For a very short time, I lived about a mile away from a video game rental store and I'd sometimes be able to convince an adult I was responsible enough to return the game and spend my own money renting a ga…

I think it's just the novelty of things. And the free time aspect.

I remember playing Dragon Warrior on NES late into the night with friends. Grinding away to get that next item and leveling up to fight bigger monsters. It was really fun, really exciting.

A few years ago I got an emulator and fired it up. Played about 5 minutes before I couldn't continue. Just didn't have the desire to grind away. And the emulator had a fastfoward button, which I found. So I just kept zipping around and running into monsters, not even wanting to spend the time to fight them. Spoiled because I didn't have to die, I could just reset to a save point.

I dunno. Maybe that just happens when you get old. Maybe it's just that there's so much instant gratification. I remember playing zelda and meticulously making maps on graph paper etc. Today you can just look it up on the internet in a minute and print a glorious, in color complete map.

It's just not the same anymore.

Re: Wing Commander III

#48

Post by aksss »

benlivengood wrote: post #43
cgriswald wrote: post #6

I've lost something. When I was a kid, buying a new game was nearly impossible; If I was lucky, I'd get one for a birthday present or a Christmas gift. Occasionally a cool friend would lend me a copy of something. For a very short time, I lived about a mile away from a video game rental store and I'd sometimes be able to convince an adult I was responsible enough to return the game and spend my own money renting a ga…

As adults we've found higher payoff/cost activities and generally, at least for me, other people are more interesting than games. I never saw that coming. EDIT: not to say that I don't still enjoy games, but games have to either be really fascinating (factorio, surviving mars, city skylines) on a technical level, be social (multiplayer minecraft with my kids), or emotionally engaging (some RPGs, but usually only one…

I think that's really on point for me. I try to recreate the magic I used to feel playing Ultima, Wing Commander, Gunship, Commanche, Falcon 3, etc. with modern games and find I just don't... care. In terms of personal activities, I could be building something cool in the garage, or out on a real-life adventure, or playing with some electronics experiment, or doing research on a topic of special interest to me. Games feel very boring and unproductive to me even though I periodically attempt to check myself on this.

Re: Wing Commander III

#49

Post by spockz »

poisonborz wrote: post #42

I really miss actual movie cutscenes. Good graphics and cheaper mocap, and the general notion that we see the same characters led game studios believe they were a better option. I still think actual actors are hundred percent better at delivering a story. We don't need to uphold this belief that in-game scenes were "real", in the way that an actual movie cutscene would hurt the "magic" - it would actually make it muc…

I miss those too. I also feel that having these movie cutscenes helps the imagination. It doesn’t matter so much that a Mammoth tank in game looks like a few squares with some stripes because in your mind you see the one with full details that drove over you. (RA or C&C, I might be mixing up unit names and games now.)

Re: Wing Commander III

#50

Post by ggggtez »

cgriswald wrote: post #6

I've lost something. When I was a kid, buying a new game was nearly impossible; If I was lucky, I'd get one for a birthday present or a Christmas gift. Occasionally a cool friend would lend me a copy of something. For a very short time, I lived about a mile away from a video game rental store and I'd sometimes be able to convince an adult I was responsible enough to return the game and spend my own money renting a ga…

There are communities devoted to deep understanding of games. These tend to be in the Speedrun or Tool-Assisted-Speedrun communities. Both tend to be high time investments, but can reveal deep understandings of a game, including how to exploit coding flaws.

Of course, gaming is not the only hobby that a person can gain satisfaction from, and you can similarly get that sense of growth from other goal or skill based hobbies. Painting, music, or even just learning a foreign language. The payoff may be much greater than mastering a game, as society at large tends to value these "worldly" skills more than gaming skill.

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