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The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

nytimes.com

41–50 of 88 posts

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#41

Genuine question: Is living in America as horrible as it sounds for the average, non-rich citizen? Impression I get from the media: * Education sets you in semi-if-not-permanent debt. * Housing is impossibly expensive. * Single hospital visit can be thousand of dollars. * Critical medication is hundreds of dollars a month (or more). * Unpaid, (effectively) mandatory overtime. * Many people work several jobs (as adult…

Financially, it sounds pretty bad and unstable: > more than a third of Americans said they could not cover an unexpected $400 home repair or hospital bill without going into debt > a third of U.S. adults say they are having difficulty covering everyday costs such as food, rent or car payments > survey after survey for years has found that most people in the U.S. live paycheck to paycheck. https://www.npr.org/2020/12/…

I know couples where both are doctors - household income it closer to a million/year - who still live paycheck to paycheck and have problems covering everyday costs like food and the car payments. You understand that the car payment are high end luxury cars. They also have the boat payment, the mansion payment. Even at that they might be okay if they weren't buying other toys every months with everything that might or might not be leftover. Understand too that trouble paying for food means the cheap takeout joint instead of the most expensive restaurants.

The point is if you don't take care there are a lot of things to spend money on. The poor in my experience tend to do slightly better with savings - they too have harder problems, but having had to live with nothing - instead of what feels like nothing but is really a lot - they will attempt to have some backup plans for when the money doesn't reach the end of the month.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#42

Genuine question: Is living in America as horrible as it sounds for the average, non-rich citizen? Impression I get from the media: * Education sets you in semi-if-not-permanent debt. * Housing is impossibly expensive. * Single hospital visit can be thousand of dollars. * Critical medication is hundreds of dollars a month (or more). * Unpaid, (effectively) mandatory overtime. * Many people work several jobs (as adult…

Financially, it sounds pretty bad and unstable: > more than a third of Americans said they could not cover an unexpected $400 home repair or hospital bill without going into debt > a third of U.S. adults say they are having difficulty covering everyday costs such as food, rent or car payments > survey after survey for years has found that most people in the U.S. live paycheck to paycheck. https://www.npr.org/2020/12/…

It's frequently the people that are unstable because they just don't save. I always think of my brother in law when I see stats like this. He would definitely answer truthfully YES to all 3 points while I would say NO to all 3. BUT somehow,

> He buys every new apple product on release day > He's had 3 brand new cars while I've driven my current car (my car is 8 years old now) > We can plan a family vacation 18 months out and when time comes he can't manage to pay for a He gets an inheritance and immediately posts pictures about shopping trips (it was ~$40K) while not being able to pay for flights I mentioned above > His only kid goes to a private school that he can't afford so has to be on payment plan which cost 10% more > He does "debt consolidation" then maxes out his credit cards > His household income is about ~$150K and they live in a small affordable town

Also he's in 40s and married with a kid. I think this is pretty "average" behavior unfortunately for Americans though.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unlikely you will get a representative set of answers form this site, which skews towards what you might call "upper-class" individuals. That being said, if you're very, very poor it's not terrible to be a US citizen. - Community college is free via a Pell grant. - Housing is expensive, but you will qualify for Section 8 (welfare) and will eventually get housing for free. - Hospital costs are irrelevant if you'r…

>The real struggle in the USA is if you're between the 25th and 50th percentile. I would say 20th to 80th percentile. You're phased out of benefits, but you're not earning enough to build wealth, especially in higher cost of living areas where the 60th+ percentile earnings are.

Don't know why you're being downvoted, 80th percentile is ~$86k single-earner. As an example, the write-off for student loan interest is completely phased out at $85k.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#44
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you definitely have the wrong idea. About 20% of Americans do live in extreme economic precarity. But things are not out of a horror movie. That’s in fact why there hasn’t been a violent revolution, things aren’t bad enough here (yet?).

> 20% of Americans do live in extreme economic precarity > That’s in fact why there hasn’t been a violent revolution You're being sarcastic, no? A fifth of the people are living in extreme economic precarity. Your Capital was stormed by terrorist from your own country. Widespread policy brutality lead to protests over the entire country, culminating in city blocks being burnt down in what, a dozen cities?

> A fifth of the people are living in extreme economic precarity.

I'm not sure what this means to you, but "economic precarity" is a meaningless statement without context. For example, in the US, pretty much anyone living in destitution is unwell. It's practically impossible to starve to death in the US. etc

So what this means is: economic mobility is limited for 20% of the population. That's not good, but in practice that translates to difficulty creating generational wealth, not a recipe for people starving or living in filth. Mobility would be much better, but it generally correlates strongly with level of education which is a separate chicken/egg problem. (At least until you get into massive student debt without a valuable degree, then that correlation shifts significantly.)

> Your Capital was stormed by terrorist from your own country.

What happened that day was not good, but framing it as a "terrorist insurrection" is exceedingly dishonest reporting. This is made plain by the kinds of charges that are being filed by the federal government. (Which, under the current administration, has no reason to "go soft" or brush things under the rug.)

There were a small number (single digits) of dissidents that wished to engage in... something not well thought out. There were a much greater number of people that trespassed into the capitol. There was an even larger number of people outside that were (as the FBI director put it) "rowdy".

All this because the former president insisted that he was cheated. (Which, frankly, there wasn't a lot of effort put into building confidence beyond "trust us!") Wholly inappropriate, bad, but not terrorism. We've experienced terrorism before (from other countries, from our political Right, and from our political Left) and this wasn't that. Anyone who suggests that is misinformed or leveraging it for political purposes.

> Widespread policy brutality lead to protests over the entire country, culminating in city blocks being burnt down in what, a dozen cities?

There is no widespread police brutality. Again, this is political framing. There are problems, no doubt, but nothing that could even reasonably be colored as "widespread brutality".

Just as there were problems of confidence during the election—egged on for political reasons—that resulted in an inappropriate reaction by protestors, there are problems of confidence—again, egged on for political reasons—about our police force.

Unfortunately, this resulted in significant overreaction that did, sadly, result in a tremendous amount of damage.

But do you notice the underlying theme, here? Political and media framing are largely responsible for exceedingly dangerous levels of division. It's not that Righty Rick is evil or Lefty Lane is evil.

It's a game of power by the institutions that control culture. The people are the pawns.

So yes, in that regard, we've got major problems: the elite. Not necessarily "the rich" (although they're largely complicit), but almost the whole of the elite institutions.

The people are at each others' throats not because there are rampant problems, poverty, abuse, etc. They are at it because the elites are at war. There isn't much to stand for the people engaging in a violent revolution, at least not conditionally. There is, however, if they're poked and prodded enough by the elite class.

So no, he's not being sarcastic.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaming women for not breastfeeding is really shitty.

And really common. We've actually heard horror stories of the lactation nurses can be the worst. Personally, we're pretty open about the fact that my wife had a double mastectomy yet we still got "I would never" type of shade thrown our way for formula feeding. The struggle is real and it's not the right time to be shaming a new mother.

It's insane that anyone would try to shame a mother for things like this. As if their entire life at least for those first few months isn't already filled with self inflicted shame and fear of doing something wrong.

To add to that, while I agree that mother's milk is best, the difference is vanishingly small in most studies. We are talking about a few percentage points in aggregate, just enough to be statistically significant.

We had a good lactation consultant and I think she explained it well. All else being equal, breastfeeding is best. But if you have to choose between a mentally and physically well mother and breast feeding, I would choose a healthier mother, everytime.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#46
post #16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you definitely have the wrong idea. About 20% of Americans do live in extreme economic precarity. But things are not out of a horror movie. That’s in fact why there hasn’t been a violent revolution, things aren’t bad enough here (yet?).

> Well you definitely have the wrong idea. About 20% of Americans do live in extreme economic precarity. I think they do have the right idea. Many of their points stands for even the bottom 80%. We've simply grown to accept that "this just is the way things are". 22% of the population between 18-65 owe student loans, which might not sound like much until you realize that only 40% of the population has a college degre…

> So over 50% of college-educated adults still have student loan debt.

So long as the interest rates on student loans is lower than the expected % return from an index fund, smart money is on not paying off those loans.

I have friends who could pay off their entire student loans amount, but why would they?

Same logic applies to why I took out a 3 year loan at 2% for my last new car.

High interest debt? Get that paid off ASAP. But I'd want to see a breakdown of interest rates of student loan debt before I start seeing gloom and doom!

> Maternal leave is by law unpaid, and few companies offer paid leave and paternal leave is virtually unheard of outside of extremely progressive companies.

This needs to change, and it is on a state by state basis. We are up to 10 states that have mandatory paid maternity leave! Still not nearly long enough in many cases, but progress is being made.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unlikely you will get a representative set of answers form this site, which skews towards what you might call "upper-class" individuals. That being said, if you're very, very poor it's not terrible to be a US citizen. - Community college is free via a Pell grant. - Housing is expensive, but you will qualify for Section 8 (welfare) and will eventually get housing for free. - Hospital costs are irrelevant if you'r…

> That being said, if you're very, very poor it's not terrible to be a US citizen. ..then... > You would likely work multiple jobs if you're dirt poor. > You likely wouldn't have vacation if you're dirt poor. I guess that's "not terrible" in your book, compared to starving in the streets? > Community college is free via a Pell grant. No it is not free. [1] The maximum a pell grant can be is ~$5700. Community college…

The pell grant will more than cover many community college options. There are usually also state programs to help pay for state and community colleges. This does not reduce what you can get from the pell grant.

Housing is very affordable in most of the US. Just not in major cities. In my smallish college town, 100k population, you can get a 3 bed 2 bath, 1200 sqft home for around $120k.

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#48
post #16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you definitely have the wrong idea. About 20% of Americans do live in extreme economic precarity. But things are not out of a horror movie. That’s in fact why there hasn’t been a violent revolution, things aren’t bad enough here (yet?).

> Well you definitely have the wrong idea. About 20% of Americans do live in extreme economic precarity. I think they do have the right idea. Many of their points stands for even the bottom 80%. We've simply grown to accept that "this just is the way things are". 22% of the population between 18-65 owe student loans, which might not sound like much until you realize that only 40% of the population has a college degre…

> So over 50% of college-educated adults still have student loan debt.

How much? What's the percentile breakdown? How does it impact their monthly income? What's their economic potential without the degree? Are you suggesting it's higher if most just hadn't gotten a degree? How many choose economically unviable degrees? Who made them do that?

You're simplifying a complex issue—and inferring a problem—without demonstrating the problem. The fact that 50% of college educated adults have student loan debt tells me absolutely nothing of substance.

I don't understand how you can make a judgement in any regard without that information.

> 0.35% of adults file for medical bankruptcy alone every year.

There's no such thing as "medical bankruptcy", so I assume you mean "bankruptcy caused by medical bills". For how many of these people is the medical bill the sole cause? A major cause? One of many causes?

Again, without identifying this in a more granular way, you're asserting some undefined "problem" which means there's no equitable mechanism to rectify that problem.

> Maternal leave is by law unpaid, and few companies offer paid leave and paternal leave is virtually unheard of outside of extremely progressive companies.

Here again stating a condition, but not identifying the problem. To what end? What's the cost to the family? To the mother? To the child? The social cost?

I can't help but feel you're just regurgitating political talking points which, frankly, aren't designed to solve problems. They're designed to emotionally hook with a voter base and ultimately get the person elected, or the newspaper sold, or whatever self-serving reason someone in power would actively choose to be so vague as to not even concretely identify a problem. It's just the notion of a problem.

I'm not saying there's no problems. I'm just saying you spent a lot of words trying to counter the parent post, but didn't say much at all. I'd like to learn more about this, but I can't find much online, and unfortunately your post wasn't very helpful.

Do you know more than you said and you're just holding it close to your chest for the sake of brevity?

Re: The Baby-Formula Crime Ring (2018)

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unlikely you will get a representative set of answers form this site, which skews towards what you might call "upper-class" individuals. That being said, if you're very, very poor it's not terrible to be a US citizen. - Community college is free via a Pell grant. - Housing is expensive, but you will qualify for Section 8 (welfare) and will eventually get housing for free. - Hospital costs are irrelevant if you'r…

> That being said, if you're very, very poor it's not terrible to be a US citizen. ..then... > You would likely work multiple jobs if you're dirt poor. > You likely wouldn't have vacation if you're dirt poor. I guess that's "not terrible" in your book, compared to starving in the streets? > Community college is free via a Pell grant. No it is not free. [1] The maximum a pell grant can be is ~$5700. Community college…

I’m not sure what you’re going on about:

1. The average community college can cost and usually does cost less than the full pell grant.

2. Discrimination against voucher recipients does exist, but the fact remains section 8 is generally enough to cover all of your housing in most places in the USA.

I believe it is better to be in the 5th percentile in the USA than most places. Feel free to show a counter example if you want.

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