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The Web’s Missing Interoperability

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Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#41

Post by jacobobryant »

pdonis wrote: post #38
jacobobryant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a big reason why I'm excited about repl.it. You can self-host a github repo in about 2 clicks (not including account setup). I could see it increasing the reach of self-hosted apps a lot. Actually I made a little proof of concept for this a week ago: https://github.com/jacobobryant/Feedstuff

I don't think the issue is hosting the app itself, it's hosting each user's data. For the vast majority of users, hosting their own data is not even on the radar. They assume that whatever app they are using is hosting their data, and the only price they will accept for doing that is "free".

The app would include a database (perhaps sqlite), so that shouldn't be an issue unless I'm misunderstanding you. you can host it for free on replit already (albeit with sleeping/cold starts)

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#42

Post by pdonis »

jacobobryant wrote: post #41
pdonis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the issue is hosting the app itself, it's hosting each user's data. For the vast majority of users, hosting their own data is not even on the radar. They assume that whatever app they are using is hosting their data, and the only price they will accept for doing that is "free".

The app would include a database (perhaps sqlite), so that shouldn't be an issue unless I'm misunderstanding you. you can host it for free on replit already (albeit with sleeping/cold starts)

> The app would include a database (perhaps sqlite)

Meaning an sqlite database hosted with the app's code? How will "host it for free" scale when your app goes viral and you have a million plus (or a billion plus) users?

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#43

Post by jacobobryant »

pdonis wrote: post #42
jacobobryant wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app would include a database (perhaps sqlite), so that shouldn't be an issue unless I'm misunderstanding you. you can host it for free on replit already (albeit with sleeping/cold starts)

> The app would include a database (perhaps sqlite) Meaning an sqlite database hosted with the app's code? How will "host it for free" scale when your app goes viral and you have a million plus (or a billion plus) users?

It'll scale because it's self-hosted. You don't serve everyone with the same app instance; everyone runs their own instance.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#44

Post by [deleted] »

gowld wrote: post #11
dmitriid wrote: post #8

> One of the reasons why GDPR is such a disaster is that it makes it all but impossible for a new social media company to ever be started in Europe And then goes on to > Moreover, it’s a reasonable regulation: my friend on Facebook didn’t give permission for their information to be given to Snapchat, for example. It does, though, make it that much more difficult to bootstrap a Facebook competitor: the most valuable d…

Simple proposal: The data should be tightly controlled by the user, like HIPAA. Users can sell their own data for services, but they can't sell other people's data.

[deleted]

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#45

Post by lotsofpulp »

olivermarks wrote: post #23
jefftk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the OP points out, the regulation that we are getting, so far, benefits these walled gardens by prioritizing privacy over interoperability.

Yes it's actually getting a lot worse! Had a long discussion the other day about Amazon and where we went wrong as a society. Short version, Amazon should have been regulated to facilitate existing small specialist businesses supply chain and delivery, not directly compete with them and force them out of business. Amazon should have been fulfilling orders on behalf of mom & pop's knitting supply, not undercutting the…

>Amazon should have been fulfilling orders on behalf of mom & pop's knitting supply, not undercutting them and cutting them out. This is incredibly damaging to the tax base as most taxes are paid by small businesses.

It's benefiting to me, and I think society, to not pay extra for unnecessary middlemen. If the problem is insufficient taxes, then raise taxes.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#46

Post by pdonis »

jacobobryant wrote: post #43
pdonis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The app would include a database (perhaps sqlite) Meaning an sqlite database hosted with the app's code? How will "host it for free" scale when your app goes viral and you have a million plus (or a billion plus) users?

It'll scale because it's self-hosted. You don't serve everyone with the same app instance; everyone runs their own instance.

> It'll scale because it's self-hosted. You don't serve everyone with the same app instance; everyone runs their own instance.

So everyone has their own free hosting account with repl.it and runs an app instance on it? Yes, technically that's "free" as in "no cost", but it's not "free" as in "no effort". The latter is the kind of "free" that Facebook users expect.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#47

Post by mariushn »

jacobobryant wrote: post #37
hertzrat wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting concept for sure. Is there a revenue model to attract top influencers? Maybe just links to a collection of Patreon-likes?

hm, no idea. I haven't thought about revenue models much since I've envisioned this more as a grass-roots thing than a startup opportunity. I think the main thing would be just making it dead easy to get started. You wouldn't necessarily need to jump start a new network since the whole point of this is to be interoperable with existing networks. A good first step might be making a personal site generator. Put in link…

How about Facebook, which requires an account to view the person posts? How would those be read? Besides maybe requiring user & password and logging in with a headless browser. Not sure if Instagram/Pinterest require a login too.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#48

Post by MatekCopatek »

An unlikely outcome that I'd like to see is the following:

1. Legislation makes current models impossible - I'm imagining something like Section 230 being repealed, Twitter and Facebook being on the hook for anything anyone posts, which means they can't moderate and are forced to change their business model/effectively close shop.

2. People still want to blog/share/like.

3. Federated networks become a thing again because small communities are way easier to moderate. Nerds self host, regular people get accounts as part of their ISP subscription or pay a few bucks for some SaaS offering. Maybe a forward looking country gives you an e-identity on the official Mastodon instance where the ToS equals local law so we don't have to have that whole Twitter censorship discussion ever again.

4. Everyone lives happily ever after.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#49

Post by EGreg »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #48

An unlikely outcome that I'd like to see is the following: 1. Legislation makes current models impossible - I'm imagining something like Section 230 being repealed, Twitter and Facebook being on the hook for anything anyone posts, which means they can't moderate and are forced to change their business model/effectively close shop. 2. People still want to blog/share/like. 3. Federated networks become a thing again bec…

For 3 to happen we would need better software. Do you have any suggestions that are the best in class?
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