Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#41

Post by MattGaiser » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

dreamer7 wrote: post #38

MattGaiser wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every marketplace has illegal products. Craigslist has stolen cars. Kijiji has stolen pets. eBay has fake collectibles. You will find all manner of scams on Reddit. Fiverr is filled with tons of people willing to do your homework. Expecting marketplaces to police peer to peer transactions in depth is unreasonable.

I really have to shamelessly plug my marketplace - https://vendiapp.com here. This is exactly why we started this with the goal of helping other marketplaces as well to completely protect its users. We believe marketplaces must start becoming more responsible and accountable for the transactions that they facilitate. We are currently focussed on the verification of electronic products. But our goal is to verify listi…

This is quite interesting, especially given that you are doing one of items. I would have thought this inordinately expensive, but evidently not.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#42

Post by MattGaiser » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

jfoster wrote: post #40

MattGaiser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the Brazilian government does not care, so they effectively own the land.

So what's actually being purchased in a transaction? Post-purchase, how is it any different than simply turning up & using the land?

Current owner doesn't shoot you?

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#43

Post by JamisonM » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #30

hetspookjee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Facebook is running into a very controversial form of selling counterfeits. Some land is legal to sell, but some is not and it is the responsibility of the platform not to facilitate crime. In this case Facebook is failing to vet their advertisements, so it should stop offering this service until it is capable of doing so within the confines of the law.

> In this case Facebook is failing to vet their advertisements, so it should stop offering this device until it is capable of doing so within the confines of the law. What person to person marketplace is held to this standard? Certainly not Craigslist, eBay, or Fiverr. Arguably not even Amazon.

Every Realtor licensed pretty much anywhere?

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#44

Post by rsj_hn » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #31

When I search for this, it's hard to look past the poverty, people who's dwellings are handmade and have no documentation. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/manaus/propertyforsale I guess 50 million people living in real poverty is just a statistic. For all the illegal comments, these dirt poor people living in slums are also living illegally. They probably have no formal property documentation.

What "illegal comments" are you referring to?

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#45

Post by vmception » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #24

foerbert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you follow this line of thought, the conclusion seems to be that if Facebook were to run ads for illegal drugs, explosives, or humans, it would simply be an indication that some country should be enforcing it's laws better. And Facebook would be totally in clear to continue showing those ads. This seems obviously wrong.

Except it is outright illegal to sell drugs, explosives, or humans. Any ad selling those is almost certainly illegal. If humans for sale, post is illegal. It is not illegal to sell land. A moderator would need to delve into Brazilian law and mapping to determine if that specific sale was illegal.

#freezuck the judge was just aiming to make an example of Mark for hosting a marketplace, like really, a website!? he wasn't even on trial for the murder for hire scheme

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#46

Post by chmod775 » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 5:47 AM UTC

barbacoa wrote: post #16

This is one of those rare times I agree with facebook. Why is this Facebook's problem? Sounds like Brazil should be enforcing their laws better. Facebook hosts for-sale postings, how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality?

>Why is this Facebook's problem?

Because Facebook is making money directly off those ads.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#47

Post by heavyset_go » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 5:47 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #30

hetspookjee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Facebook is running into a very controversial form of selling counterfeits. Some land is legal to sell, but some is not and it is the responsibility of the platform not to facilitate crime. In this case Facebook is failing to vet their advertisements, so it should stop offering this service until it is capable of doing so within the confines of the law.

> In this case Facebook is failing to vet their advertisements, so it should stop offering this device until it is capable of doing so within the confines of the law. What person to person marketplace is held to this standard? Certainly not Craigslist, eBay, or Fiverr. Arguably not even Amazon.

> What person to person marketplace is held to this standard? Certainly not Craigslist

Craigslist completely nuked their personals sections because of the illegal activity on them, along with the resulting bad publicity and legislation that made it very clear what the standard is and that Craigslist needed to meet it.

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#48

Post by tshaddox » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 6:02 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #24

foerbert wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you follow this line of thought, the conclusion seems to be that if Facebook were to run ads for illegal drugs, explosives, or humans, it would simply be an indication that some country should be enforcing it's laws better. And Facebook would be totally in clear to continue showing those ads. This seems obviously wrong.

Except it is outright illegal to sell drugs, explosives, or humans. Any ad selling those is almost certainly illegal. If humans for sale, post is illegal. It is not illegal to sell land. A moderator would need to delve into Brazilian law and mapping to determine if that specific sale was illegal.

Wait so the only reason it’s bad for Facebook to show ads selling humans is that slavery is illegal in every country? So I guess if one country made slavery legal then it would be fine for Facebook to show ads selling humans everywhere in the world?

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#49

Post by warent » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 6:38 AM UTC

dreamer7 wrote: post #38

MattGaiser wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every marketplace has illegal products. Craigslist has stolen cars. Kijiji has stolen pets. eBay has fake collectibles. You will find all manner of scams on Reddit. Fiverr is filled with tons of people willing to do your homework. Expecting marketplaces to police peer to peer transactions in depth is unreasonable.

I really have to shamelessly plug my marketplace - https://vendiapp.com here. This is exactly why we started this with the goal of helping other marketplaces as well to completely protect its users. We believe marketplaces must start becoming more responsible and accountable for the transactions that they facilitate. We are currently focussed on the verification of electronic products. But our goal is to verify listi…

Interesting, I had a very similar idea for this, but I'm already doing a solo side gig so haven't had the time to work on yet another solo thing. Maybe we can collaborate or chat? Shoot me an email!

Re: Amazon rainforest plots sold via Facebook Marketplace ads

#50

Post by erostrate » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 6:39 AM UTC

foerbert wrote: post #20

barbacoa wrote: post #16

This is one of those rare times I agree with facebook. Why is this Facebook's problem? Sounds like Brazil should be enforcing their laws better. Facebook hosts for-sale postings, how reasonable is it for them to vet every post against scams and illegality?

If you follow this line of thought, the conclusion seems to be that if Facebook were to run ads for illegal drugs, explosives, or humans, it would simply be an indication that some country should be enforcing it's laws better. And Facebook would be totally in clear to continue showing those ads. This seems obviously wrong.

If you take the opposite line, that Facebook is responsible for checking that the product is sold legally, then the conclusion is that Facebook would have to confirm legal ownership of every product before allowing a sale.

This also seems wrong.

The right solution is in the middle: Facebook should spend some effort validating the legality of the sale. The required standard of effort should depend on how much money Facebook is making from the ads, and on an estimate of the proportion of products sold illegally, amongst other things. The former to ensure that a very small similar website is not held to the same standard, the latter to ensure that if 99% of the products are sold illegally then Facebook is responsible.

Without knowing the total volume of these land ads and the proportion of illegal ones, it is hard to tell if there is anything to fix here.