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The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

scientificamerican.com

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Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#41

Post by pbhjpbhj »

sandworm101 wrote: post #21
thepete2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of unrelated, but I wonder if a small amount (say 100 signs or so) of sign language (ASL or local equivalent) wouldn't be useful for hearing people in their day-to-day lives. I'm very interested in sign-language, but language being what it is you can't do it alone ...

>> useful for hearing people in their day-to-day lives. You doubtless already use many signs. They may not be ASL but we do use a variety of hand gestures to convey very specific meanings.

I'm not sure on the "very specific" part. We use some general, non-specific signs ("OK", "good" [thumbs up, depending on your cultural background and situation]).

We, the hearing community in my country (UK), use gestures too of course.

Could you give a few examples of signs hearing people use where you are that you consider "very specific"?

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#42

Post by bskrobisz »

CivBase wrote: post #36
bskrobisz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's faster to read text than to listen to someone speak, yet speech remains popular. There are aspects of communication which are not easily replicated in text -- sign languages do not lack the semantic information that is provided in speech by the tone, pitch, and rhythm of voice which is not, for the most part, reflected directly in grammar (in English, anyways). These components take other forms (expression and a…

> It's faster to read text than to listen to someone speak, yet speech remains popular. I suspect there are a few reason for that beyond the explanations you gave. 1) Speech is faster to produce than text. Professional captioners are among the few who can challenge that. For everyone else, it's usually faster to give a speech or say what's on your mind than to type it all out. 2) Speech frees up the eyes. My vision i…

I think these are reasonable. I should highlight, though, that 1, 3 and 4 are true for sign languages as well -- 3 and 4 doubly so (given how large a component individual expressions and gestures play in communication without sound).

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#43

Post by bluGill »

swsieber wrote: post #34
thepete2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of unrelated, but I wonder if a small amount (say 100 signs or so) of sign language (ASL or local equivalent) wouldn't be useful for hearing people in their day-to-day lives. I'm very interested in sign-language, but language being what it is you can't do it alone ...

You know what signing is amazing for? Teaching babies to communicate before they have proper vocal control (preverbal is the term I think). We're talking useful communication at under a year. Something like 9-12 months.

Somewhat. Babies do tend to learn a few signs, and it is useful when they can indicate what they need. However as soon as they learn to talk they universally forget everything. I know people fluent in sign (a large part of their job is working with the deaf), and when they sign to babies the babies are like "you idiot: I just heard you talking to someone else so don't insult my intelligence by not talking to me" The babies can't say something so complex, but you can tell from their reaction that is about what they are thinking.

Which is too bad, sign language would be useful in later life. Unless there is a deaf person in the babies life though they will refuse to have anything to do with it once they can speak.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#44

Post by pbhjpbhj »

CivBase wrote: post #22

Perhaps someone on HN knows the answer to a question I've had for years now. Why use sign language on platforms where text is accessible? I've wondered this since I first saw a TV broadcast with a signer off to the side. Isn't that what closed captions are for? Surely it's faster to read text captions than the gestures of some low-res recording of a human stuck in a tiny box in the corner of the screen. Video chat pl…

In addition to what others have said, text encodes oral language well but is not necessarily a good fit for sign languages. I guess it might be like writing a non-Latin scripted language using Latin letters?

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#45

Post by sandworm101 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #41
sandworm101 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> useful for hearing people in their day-to-day lives. You doubtless already use many signs. They may not be ASL but we do use a variety of hand gestures to convey very specific meanings.

I'm not sure on the "very specific" part. We use some general, non-specific signs ("OK", "good" [thumbs up, depending on your cultural background and situation]). We, the hearing community in my country (UK), use gestures too of course. Could you give a few examples of signs hearing people use where you are that you consider "very specific"?

>>> where you are that you consider "very specific"?

Flipping the bird. Pointing at things. Hand signals when driving (more a thing for motorcyclists). Then there are plenty of job-specific things. Crane operators have their own system of very specific hand gestures for directing crane operations. The military has a host of standardized gestures. DJs/audio techs/musicians have a set for talking in loud environments.

https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/materials_handlin...

https://armynavyoutdoors.com/blog/learn-military-hand-signal...

The little girl in this vid managed to convey a very specific meaning to a passing ship using only a gesture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETrWMvicKps

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#46

Post by bluGill »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #41
sandworm101 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> useful for hearing people in their day-to-day lives. You doubtless already use many signs. They may not be ASL but we do use a variety of hand gestures to convey very specific meanings.

I'm not sure on the "very specific" part. We use some general, non-specific signs ("OK", "good" [thumbs up, depending on your cultural background and situation]). We, the hearing community in my country (UK), use gestures too of course. Could you give a few examples of signs hearing people use where you are that you consider "very specific"?

Depends on context. A lot of workplaces have specific signs for use when hearing protection is worn: things like turn the machine off now, or I'm good to go. Airport ground control has a whole set of signs. Traffic cops also have their signs that everyone knows.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#47

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cblconfederate wrote: post #19

Those seem like reasonable adaptations, but i think Zoom has missed an opportunity here, we all need some kind of sign language with video calls. Where is my "Yes", "No" button, or other instant ways to communicate common things without having to turn on the mic or type in chat ?

There's "hand up" in most video chat apps; I saw that in Jitsi first.

Perhaps changing it to allow other emoticons ... ?

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#48

Post by iav »

The best part of Zoom for deaf people is the automatic captioning.

There is one big downside of using generic video chat for signing - it’s usually optimized for clear audio, not clear video. When the connection gets weak, Zoom will drop frames but try to preserve audio. For the deaf, dropping audio is of course not a problem but dropping frames means they miss a key word in the sentence.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#49

Post by CivBase »

bskrobisz wrote: post #42
CivBase wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's faster to read text than to listen to someone speak, yet speech remains popular. I suspect there are a few reason for that beyond the explanations you gave. 1) Speech is faster to produce than text. Professional captioners are among the few who can challenge that. For everyone else, it's usually faster to give a speech or say what's on your mind than to type it all out. 2) Speech frees up the eyes. My vision i…

I think these are reasonable. I should highlight, though, that 1, 3 and 4 are true for sign languages as well -- 3 and 4 doubly so (given how large a component individual expressions and gestures play in communication without sound).

> 1, 3 and 4 are true for sign languages as well

That's true so long as the speaker is the one signing, which is probably true in the context of video calls but probably not in the context of TV.

Re: The Covid Zoom Boom Is Reshaping Sign Language

#50

Post by medstrom »

dnndev wrote: post #28
thepete2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of unrelated, but I wonder if a small amount (say 100 signs or so) of sign language (ASL or local equivalent) wouldn't be useful for hearing people in their day-to-day lives. I'm very interested in sign-language, but language being what it is you can't do it alone ...

Super powers Sign Language -> communicate with someone in a noisy room (across the room even) Braille -> A friend of mine learned braille so he could "read" books after his parents said lights out. What a rebel.

A risky habit: signing with other deaf drivers on the motorway. I've done it...
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