Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a Canadian, I would much prefer our government pays comparable private sector salaries.
They will when people are all leaving for better pay elsewhere.
They don’t in the US, so I doubt it.
Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
41–49 of 49 posts
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many government positions do not give you a right to strike. The idea of striking is to force the company to raise prices or cut management salary and give more to workers, so it's a type of political battle over the economic surplus created by the firm. That makes sense in, say, a factory or business where there is a surplus to be fought over. But Government agencies have no surpluses, they run deficits and they hav…
> Many government positions do not give you a right to strike. That may be true in other countries. In Canada, our Federal government employees are part of a union that comprises 200,000 employees. The rest of what you wrote is a very American perspective on public service, unions, and payroll structures that is almost entirely irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian government agencies. As for your last paragraph, it…
According to Wikipedia the annual budget per employee at CSE calculates to be approximately USD$220,000/employee, which would be far less than the cost of hiring a typical NSA contractor[1]. This of course assumes that CSE doesn't have any other expenses (buying hardware, paying electricity bills)!
If CSE employees don't find the salary competitive now, you can almost be certain that 9/10 people working there in a few years time will be on much higher contractor rates.
[1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-average-defense-depart... (these figures are extremely conservative as they're from 2015, not specific to high demand ICT jobs, and also without the scarcity in the job market that a TS/SCI clearance creates)
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#43It's crazy to think what is basically a branch of the NSA (sorry Echelon member states) has the will and means to go on strike. Those kinds of tendencies would likely disqualify you from the job here.
Yes, it seems that from a logically consistent point of view, anyone in the military (including military intelligence) striking should probably be accurately classified as treason. People in the military aren't "free", by the rules of the military, in the way that private citizens are - the military is a dictatorship, and disobeying is, under their rules, a crime. I, too, was surprised that this is a thing that can h…
I've been both a uniformed soldier and a contractor, never an agency civilian but work with plenty of them, and they are not "in the military" in the sense you mean here. They work for the military, as do I as a contractor, but we're not subject to UCMJ. If you're subject to UCMJ, then yes, your freedoms are severely curtailed and you do not enjoy the benefits of the Constitution afforded to civilians. You can be detained against your will by your commander. You are absolutely not allowed freedom of speech or freedom of movement. You can't quit the job. You can be fired for being fat. None of that applies to civilians, even DoD and IC agency civilians. If a civilian doesn't do what their manager asks, they can be fired. If a soldier doesn't do what their commander asks, they can be arrested. Huge difference between working for the military and being "in" the military.
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#44Sounds like they weren't doing a very good job, otherwise they could have just used the information they gathered to blackmail whatever Canada's version of congress is into giving them more money like their counterpart US spy agencies do.
Odds are that these people are way smarter than you and obviously have taken a course that allows them to not compromise their ethics, and hopefully serves to create a stronger workforce and a more secure world.
Maybe they're even smart enough to understand sarcasm.
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
the NSA is "civilian" in name only, to get around that pesky constitution that the government hates soo much. the NSA is a division of the DoD, it is based on a Military Base, and it has many military officers in high ranking positions if it acts like a duck, talks likes a Duck, calling it s something else does not make it anything other than a duck, this NSA for all practical purpose is part of the military. They sa…
Its still civilian in the way that matters for this discussion in that its not a crime for an NSA employee to disobey an order.
Edward Snowden would like to have a word with you
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many government positions do not give you a right to strike. The idea of striking is to force the company to raise prices or cut management salary and give more to workers, so it's a type of political battle over the economic surplus created by the firm. That makes sense in, say, a factory or business where there is a surplus to be fought over. But Government agencies have no surpluses, they run deficits and they hav…
> Many government positions do not give you a right to strike. That may be true in other countries. In Canada, our Federal government employees are part of a union that comprises 200,000 employees. The rest of what you wrote is a very American perspective on public service, unions, and payroll structures that is almost entirely irrelevant to a discussion of Canadian government agencies. As for your last paragraph, it…
In some locations bus drivers go "on strike" by refusing to take fares for a set period of time. The service is provided, they are paid their usual salary, but magically it seems no one caught the bus that day when we look at the figures!
Work to rule is another way to do it. I personally find the concept hilarious.
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#47It's crazy to think what is basically a branch of the NSA (sorry Echelon member states) has the will and means to go on strike. Those kinds of tendencies would likely disqualify you from the job here.
Yes, it seems that from a logically consistent point of view, anyone in the military (including military intelligence) striking should probably be accurately classified as treason. People in the military aren't "free", by the rules of the military, in the way that private citizens are - the military is a dictatorship, and disobeying is, under their rules, a crime. I, too, was surprised that this is a thing that can h…
[deleted]
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its still civilian in the way that matters for this discussion in that its not a crime for an NSA employee to disobey an order.
Edward Snowden would like to have a word with you
Are you purposefully misunderstanding?
Did Snowden "not follow an order" or did he do something explicitly already illegal according to civilian law.
Also note that if captured he's not going to face a court martial, he's going to face the normal civilian legal system.
Re: Hundreds of workers at cybersecurity agency vote to strike
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Odds are that these people are way smarter than you and obviously have taken a course that allows them to not compromise their ethics, and hopefully serves to create a stronger workforce and a more secure world.
Smart people don't use force to get paid. They usually obtain a pay rise through offering a better product,not through extortion scams (public sector workers striking).
They are allowed to bargain, or negotiate what ever you want to call it, this is a fair tool. A major problem is that these agencies aren't paying what top talent requires. So people are underpaid and also, other people that could do really important work go else where and use their intelligence on advertising.