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TikTok and the network effects of creativity

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Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#41

Post by wsinks »

adventured wrote: post #2

The author is very incorrect. > By network effects of creativity, I mean that every additional user on TikTok makes every other user more creative. That is false. TikTok isn't a creativity amplification network, it's a mimic network. The extreme majority of humans are mimics, they essentially never create or do anything creative or original. They are incapable of that (cue the outrage at such a statement, even though…

A few questions for you, because I think you make a good point about it being a mimic network (where each person puts a slight spin on it).

1. Have you heard of the belief of "Human Design"? That belief / theory / spiritual guide has a similar distribution to what you're talking about. I'm just curious if your thinking was independent to that or if you've ever heard of it. (https://www.jovianarchive.com/Human_Design/Types)

2. How do you define originality? Is it something where "you know it when you see it", or is it something else?

3. Thinking of probabilities, wouldn't it also make sense that the default for people is to be un-original? We only have so many elements and so many places, I have to imagine that people being 'incapable of [doing anything creative or original]' is less a value statement and more just a logical progression of probability.

4. I've also come to a feeling that a person doing something that they've seen before, but do not see right at that very minute, is 'non-internet brain thinking'. We didn't have visual records so prevalent until just recently in humanity's lifetime. Repetition of behavior (lately sometimes called 'holding space for X') is a useful function for social networks, giving validity to someone's creativity.

Again, not trying to invalidate anything you're saying (and I noted your 'cue the outrage' comment, hence why I'm over specifying this too)

Super interesting take on the article, I've been wondering similar things for a while.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#42

Post by OrbitRock »

cambalache wrote: post #40
RealityVoid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is some truth in that those characters were more creative than many other, but they did not create in a void. Your first example, Newton, said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." Who am I to contradict Newton? :)

Arent you the same kid saying in other comment that there is not creativity, just imitation? Take a position and stick to it. BTW you are misinterpreting Newton (on purpose or not). He didnt say he copy them, he was humbly acknowledging there have been giants in science before him.

Well, I think the insight in the article here is that a network (including such “giants” that came before) can boost the creativity of those who come after, even including a new giant such as Newton.

Think about any modern scientist. Has their creativity been boosted by the existence of all the other scientists?

If I’m a physicist, the existence of Newton boosted my creativity because now I can apply calculus to problems. If I’m a biologist, Im leaning on Darwin and all the insights of statisticians and the people who have delineated the methods and findings around which I organize my science.

People have previously innovated the concepts, methods, and foundational understandings, and finding new insight can be a matter of combining these in novel ways.

I don’t think this is completely different than what the author is describing in TikTok. Both the format and ecosystem of tools that the service creates, and the social network of users create an environment where it’s easier to go out and make something.

A similar thing happens in science.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#43

Post by zwieback »

adventured wrote: post #2

The author is very incorrect. > By network effects of creativity, I mean that every additional user on TikTok makes every other user more creative. That is false. TikTok isn't a creativity amplification network, it's a mimic network. The extreme majority of humans are mimics, they essentially never create or do anything creative or original. They are incapable of that (cue the outrage at such a statement, even though…

Quite the elitist view! When I watch a few TikTok videos I quickly form an opinion whether something is creative or mere copying, I know it when I see it. Just writing the whole thing off seems insane, statistically speaking.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#44

Post by Spivak »

skybrian wrote: post #31

It sounds like a tremendous amount of creativity, but limited in scope to making videos? It seems kind of narrowly focused on entertainment.

Sorta but in a lot of TikTok niches the endgame isn't really a video, that's just how it's presented. All the hobbyist communities make videos that show off their work and inspire others in their bubble. Like sure the video is "entertainment" in that it holds your attention but that's pretty much the extent of it.

Like hobby TikTok is genuinely just a bunch of nerds being genuinely excited to show you something they're passionate about or something they made. It's so god damn refreshing. Like the early days of Tumblr.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#45

Post by robocat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #3
adventured wrote: post #2

The author is very incorrect. > By network effects of creativity, I mean that every additional user on TikTok makes every other user more creative. That is false. TikTok isn't a creativity amplification network, it's a mimic network. The extreme majority of humans are mimics, they essentially never create or do anything creative or original. They are incapable of that (cue the outrage at such a statement, even though…

> TikTok isn't a creativity amplification network, it's a mimic network. Replication with some source of variation (such as even just “people aren't perfect mimics”, but “some people apply some minor modicum of creativity” enhances this) plus selective pressure (such as interesting novelty getting rewarded) is sufficient for it to function as as Darwinian creativity amplification system by way of being principally a…

Recognising creativity is also creative. Art is in the eye of the beholder (not necessarily the creator).

Something can be authored that was unintentionally interesting, but amplified by the creative recognition of some weird facet. For example cat videos - the cat isn’t trying to get likes! Edit: or a security camera video where there is zero intent to create, and the art is in the recognition of the clip by everybody.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#46

Post by user00012-ab »

tomerico wrote: post #29

The most disruptive part of Tiktok is how it managed to dramatically reduce the "rich gets richer" effect of entertainment platforms. If you upload a video, TikTok will show it to other users even if it's your first. This allows them to assess it and progressively grow its audience. On YouTube and Instagram you'd have to rely on search traffic or external sources to build up your audience and get recommended (except…

Are you sure this isn't more of the Medium model, where they can show you a bunch of new people all the time, but you'll never actually follow them or see them ever again (just another nebulous medium post)? So really the only person that profits in this model is the company hosting the content.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#47

Post by tp3 »

tomerico wrote: post #29

The most disruptive part of Tiktok is how it managed to dramatically reduce the "rich gets richer" effect of entertainment platforms. If you upload a video, TikTok will show it to other users even if it's your first. This allows them to assess it and progressively grow its audience. On YouTube and Instagram you'd have to rely on search traffic or external sources to build up your audience and get recommended (except…

I watch TikTok and watch their videos because my audience is just me. And because they are just me. I don't want to watch anyone else because I believe it's not worth watching them. But they are my audience. That's all I want. And they are my audience. And I feel like I should be making sure that they feel that way for me.

And they are making damn sure that it is worth watching.

When I think of this "I believe this thing is fucking worth watching" line I think of the way things used to be.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#48

Post by tp3 »

adventured wrote: post #2

The author is very incorrect. > By network effects of creativity, I mean that every additional user on TikTok makes every other user more creative. That is false. TikTok isn't a creativity amplification network, it's a mimic network. The extreme majority of humans are mimics, they essentially never create or do anything creative or original. They are incapable of that (cue the outrage at such a statement, even though…

In TikTok, it is easy to dismiss the whole project because, well, it's not a huge deal. It's fun. It's easy to take for granted that the entire thing is the work of a single person who is basically a public relations and marketing specialist named TiKTok. This is not a joke. This is a reality that requires every minute of the day to be spent creating an avatar for their fan base of 6.5M.

But TiKTok has only just launched that avatar. TiKTok has created another one. They are still creating the first and are hoping to add another.

And as a result, TikTok has become this strange thing called "the Internet's Most Dangerous Video." For some reason, even people who are a little skeptical have found the world and become so accustomed to the idea of TikTok and their little thing that they can't imagine how this project can kill their brains for some of the crazy shit they're actually watching on it.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#49

Post by tp3 »

nikki93 wrote: post #32

I think the "each new member can enhance creativity of existing members" vibe can exist generally among "scenes", and scenes definitely can use technology that directly taps into this. I like the "scenius" term for this from Brian Eno: https://youtu.be/0qATeJcL1XQ (54:15 in that talk)

TikTok describes itself as: "The most fun, honest, true and honest place on the web you will ever get." That's how TikTok feels. The thing about TikTok is that, like with Facebook itself, you know every detail right from the beginning. Your friends and everyone who you have ever interacted with on Facebook are your peers. But TikTok is more powerful than Facebook when it comes to the social fabric. TikTok is like a community hub with social networks where everyone can be themselves. There are no limits when it comes to who can do what and how they can interact with each other.

Re: TikTok and the network effects of creativity

#50

Post by justwalt »

tp3 wrote: post #47
tomerico wrote: post #29

The most disruptive part of Tiktok is how it managed to dramatically reduce the "rich gets richer" effect of entertainment platforms. If you upload a video, TikTok will show it to other users even if it's your first. This allows them to assess it and progressively grow its audience. On YouTube and Instagram you'd have to rely on search traffic or external sources to build up your audience and get recommended (except…

I watch TikTok and watch their videos because my audience is just me. And because they are just me. I don't want to watch anyone else because I believe it's not worth watching them. But they are my audience. That's all I want. And they are my audience. And I feel like I should be making sure that they feel that way for me. And they are making damn sure that it is worth watching. When I think of this "I believe this t…

GPT3?
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