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VSI OpenVMS v9.0-G Released (x86 port)

vmssoftware.com

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Re: VSI OpenVMS v9.0-G Released (x86 port)

#41

Post by selfhoster11 »

fredoralive wrote: post #12
johnklos wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only half joking - "x86" refers to 32 bit, and: "Since the stack and static data on x86 is still allocated in 32-bit address space, a 32-bit pointer is sufficient to point to them." It seems they're still expecting a lot of VAX users to migrate.

If x86 refers to 32 bit, what family do the 8086/88/186/286 belong to? 8080_16? :-) I do suspect as time goes by x86 is just becoming more synonymous with the 64 bit variant, the 32 bit and 16 bit modes are increasingly irrelevant to anyone except boot ROM authors and retro enthusiasts.

I have never seen anyone refer to x86 as a synonym for the 64-bit ISA. In the Linux world, it's amd64, in the Windows world it's x64/64-bit, and sometimes in both of those worlds, x86_86. I don't think this loss of distinction is occurring at all.

Re: VSI OpenVMS v9.0-G Released (x86 port)

#43

Post by scruffyherder »

skissane wrote: post #37
scruffyherder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I’m totally unfamiliar with x32 but say that there is all kinds of 32bit apps that are just too big for a single person to port to 64bit (or simply too big too old) is this a silver bullet of being able to rebuild 32bit apps to run as 64bit ones?! Seems like the kind of thing that OS X desperately needed...

No, that's not what x32 is for. On x86-64, Linux supports legacy 32-bit apps (i386 ABI) and native 64-bit apps (x86-64 ABI). However, the x32 ABI isn't either of those. x32 is actually a hybrid 32-bit/64-bit architecture, that lets you use some of the newer features of x86-64 (such as increased number of registers) while keeping 32-bit memory addresses. The theory behind it is that for apps that don't really need a 6…

The code weaver approach doesn’t sound like something like hat is accessible to small time people... did they have to build their own thunking layers?

Sounds like it’s easier to rebuild as a Win32 and have OS X users use wine then.

I know a company the size of Apple can’t be expected to be some kind of stable dev platform like how Microsoft treats Windows where I can still run Win32 stuff from 1993 on Windows 10 x64. Maybe one day Apple might take an interest in the desktop again but it seems so unlikely.

Re: VSI OpenVMS v9.0-G Released (x86 port)

#44

Post by skissane »

scruffyherder wrote: post #43
skissane wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not what x32 is for. On x86-64, Linux supports legacy 32-bit apps (i386 ABI) and native 64-bit apps (x86-64 ABI). However, the x32 ABI isn't either of those. x32 is actually a hybrid 32-bit/64-bit architecture, that lets you use some of the newer features of x86-64 (such as increased number of registers) while keeping 32-bit memory addresses. The theory behind it is that for apps that don't really need a 6…

The code weaver approach doesn’t sound like something like hat is accessible to small time people... did they have to build their own thunking layers? Sounds like it’s easier to rebuild as a Win32 and have OS X users use wine then. I know a company the size of Apple can’t be expected to be some kind of stable dev platform like how Microsoft treats Windows where I can still run Win32 stuff from 1993 on Windows 10 x64.…

> The code weaver approach doesn’t sound like something like hat is accessible to small time people... did they have to build their own thunking layers?

It wasn't easy, no. They had to do two things:

1) Fork clang and extensions to C to support mixed 32-bit and 64-bit address spaces

2) Get a special code-signing entitlement from Apple allowing them to call the API to enable 32-bit code execution (not required if you are okay with disabling SIP)

Lots of technical details here: https://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2019-December/15...

Yeah, this is a monumental effort that few other than Codeweavers could replicate, and I believe they got some help from Apple engineering to do it.

They've open sourced their code, but they aren't upstreaming it into mainstream Wine – having to use a forked C compiler is just a bit too much.

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