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Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

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Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#41

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

buran77 wrote: post #19
sanxiyn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as Switzerland.

Many European countries (like Germany, Italy, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Finland, parts of UK*, Poland, Russia) have blasphemy laws going as far as mandating prison terms, even if they rarely convict or even indict anyone under them. * corrected from "UK".

Nowadays, most Western countries with anti-blasphemy laws on the books still have those laws precisely because they are never enforced. If they were enforced, there would be an outcry sufficient to have them immediately overturned.

It is like how the monarch in many a constitutional monarchy today technically still has power, but any actual attempt to use that power would probably lead to the end of that monarchy, at least in its current structure.

Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#42

Post by lupire »

simion314 wrote: post #25
jacknews wrote: post #2

Of course I disagree with religious or any other intolerance, but, if you want to do business in Pakistan, you have to follow their rules. It isn't a case of 'caving to pressure', but of 'complying with the law', since the apps are available in other countries, just not in Pakistan, where they are deemed blasphemous, according to their laws.

Sure, but if the users could side load applications then even if the government would demand the giants to remove X app or book the user could find a way. People were listening to forbidden radio stations in secret and this was possible because DRM did not exist on the radio and TV equipment.

Google allowed side loading these apps, right? At least for now?

Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#43

Post by [deleted] »

sateesh wrote: post #32
threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2010 Google left China for those reasons. Much have changed since then. This is what I'm accusing you of. How has Chinese affairs changed for the better after Google?

Not OP. But are you telling since Google's course of action didn't had any impact of altering actions of Chinese government, they (Google) should have stayed put.

[deleted]

Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#45

Post by ur-whale »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #12

I'm worried about the future of computing devices. With Apple and Google going with the walled garden approach, What's to stop any government from telling Apple and Google that an app is illegal?

By definition, in most places, govts have a monopoly on physical violence (i.e. : they have the most guns).

So, to answer your question that starts with "What's to stop any government", the answer is : nothing.

Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#46

Post by FlownScepter »

centimeter wrote: post #34
adventured wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was a good idea. I said Pakistan's territory is their sovereign land, and they get to decide how things work within that territory accordingly. Whether anyone likes it or not. There are a lot of really bad nations and a lot of really, really bad laws out there. What's the plan for all of that? Because the Internet is a tiny little fraction of that problem and it's tied up in the fact that people outsi…

Pakistan only gets to decide what they can practically influence. Apple and Google could design their phones in a way where it’s not possible for Pakistan to wholesale prevent people from using a piece of software.

At which point said phone is no longer available for purchase in Pakistan.

This attitude pervades tech-inclined folk's discussions of politics, as if the Internet is somehow above the laws and culture of the places where it operates, especially with regard to the global south. Just because you either don't comprehend or don't respect a given culture enough to learn about it, doesn't mean it no longer applies to you.

I of course disagree with what's happening here, but nothing Pakistan is doing here is illegal or surprising.

Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#49

Post by DSingularity »

adventured wrote: post #22
FriedrichN wrote: post #20

Just another reason why you don't want companies like Apple and Google to be the gatekeepers. Technology can set you free, but only if you let it. If you don't, it can easily become a new tool of oppression.

The gatekeeper is Pakistan, it's their sovereign territory. The Internet isn't outside of that reach, it only exists inside of a territory with the permission of the government that controls it. You might as well be talking about any of a zillion laws within 195 different countries that one might find objectionable, it's exactly the same 'problem.' What's the premise? Pakistan doesn't get to decide their own laws? Th…

Yeah I agree with you that the sovereignty of people should be respected. But shouldnt we draw some line?

Say Israel makes a law that Arab citizens should be tracked through a digital symbol to identify that they are of the non-Jewish subset of the population — should US companies comply? And I specifically choose Israel because it has a history of discrimination against its Arab population.

Re: Google, Apple cave to Pakistan pressure to take down apps by Ahmadiyya Muslims

#50

Post by gostsamo »

threatofrain wrote: post #21
gostsamo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of "moral" in your comment and it crowds the meaning for me. If you are accusing me that I'm preaching and not following my own words, that is a big assumption on your side.

> 2010 Google left China for those reasons. Much have changed since then. This is what I'm accusing you of. How has Chinese affairs changed for the better after Google?

If you see a man being killed, would you go to the killer and say: "This guy is already dead and nobody can prosecute you because there are no sheriff in the county, but if you pay me, I'll help you with your laundry."? Because the question is not if Google can transform CCP, but if it would take part in its crimes. Unfortunately, there is no God or well-supplied jewish conspiracy that sits above us, knows everything, and can deliver direct consequences for our actions. So, we have a choice to make: to act in our direct interest or act against it and bet on a vague conjecture that a collective sacrifice will deliver a better future for everyone. So, asking if the choice of one changes anything is the wrong question in this case.

Of course, all things above are not simple. There is the prisoners dilema "if not me, then someone else will do it", and "if it is me, I can prevent even worse from happening", but there is also the "slippery slope" where making small concessions leads to more and more concessions. So, everyone make there choices and we all leave with the consequences.

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