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Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

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Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#41
post #34

All three cases by this author are only controversial because we have ignored a greater point: colleges don’t exist to get you a job. They exist for a class of society, a finishing school where they all meet each other and collaborate on the obscure arts that weave the fabric of our reality. It has been this way for a millennium. The workforce started using them en masse 60 years ago and we’ve been trying to patch th…

I'm continually surprised with how few people, even on HN, understand why private education exacerbates inequality. Limiting access to valuable information to only those who know how to navigate the secretive process will favor those with means. In this case the valuable information impacts lifetime earning income potential hence perpetuating inequality. I think this blind spot is because many people derive part of t…

I think it's because people are afraid to cop to their privilege. This is based on how defensive people get when it is pointed out. I understand this response on an emotional level, but that should really pass after giving it a second thought (this, of course, assumes one is self aware enough to reflect on it).

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#42
I can appreciate the authors anger at being filtered through a process that denies employment based on a lack of a degree. I don't disagree that there is a problem, I believe the author lacks a clear vision of what exactly to do about the problem.

For senior level roles you do need someway to determine who can actually perform the job, qualifications will discriminate against some pool of candidates. If you require experience you are discriminating based on age, if you require a professional certification you are discriminating against those who haven't achieved the certification.

The question seems to be what to do about other roles, like writer, or developer where the pool of applicants can be large. How do you filter out unqualified candidates? Whatever metric you choose becomes the new factor of discrimination.

A college degree is an easy button in some sense. It proves you can stick with a long term goal. It proves you can pass some sort of basic tests. It shows you potentially have some of the qualities required. It's not guaranteed, there are horrible lawyers who passed the bar.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#43
post #20

> I preceded to tell him that it doesn’t matter if you have a college degree anymore to do today’s jobs and that he was basically bragging about his family’s socioeconomic status, not his son’s actual achievements. I tried to elaborate about the inequalities of higher education and why it’s an outdated metric of future success. I explained why employers are absolutely wrong for thinking his son is better than someone…

> Also, it's "proceeded" He’d know that if he had a college degree.

The author has a journalism degree, which makes the entire thing so much more ironic.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#44
post #3

Wow this guy sounds like an asshole.

Starting off bragging about that Starbucks story was comedy gold. There's a decent chance someone who wanted to convince the guy that his son's degree wasn't as valuable as he thought could make the case. The author had no intention of doing that.

It's not just how she makes the case either. A complete stranger is happy his son finished college, and she pops out of nowhere to rain on his parade? And then she tells the internet the story without a hint of embarassment?

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#45
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's "proceeded" He’d know that if he had a college degree.

The author has a journalism degree, which makes the entire thing so much more ironic.

I don't believe the author is railing against getting a degree, so much as railing against these "elite college" graduates being that much better than any other graduate.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#46
It's very telling about what kind of people make up this community when all the up-voted comments are attacks on the author and very limited actual discussion on the topic itself yet the down-voted comments are speaking to the actual problem. You don't have to like the author or their demeanor, but to flag this thread is neglecting how the topic itself is a good fit for HN. What I'm seeing right now is reflective of the elitist attitude on this platform that rears its ugly head from time to time. Clearly this article hit a nerve for a lot of degree holders, it's just a shame they're emotional about it rather than constructive. Go ahead and down-vote me, but that won't make your insecurities go away.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#47

It's very telling about what kind of people make up this community when all the up-voted comments are attacks on the author and very limited actual discussion on the topic itself yet the down-voted comments are speaking to the actual problem. You don't have to like the author or their demeanor, but to flag this thread is neglecting how the topic itself is a good fit for HN. What I'm seeing right now is reflective of…

The argument wasn't strong in any way, in my opinion. The article itself limited the discussion by taking a demeanor that is effectively an attack on all college graduates because of anecdotal evidence misapplied as representative. There was no discussion as to what alternatives are to a college degree that employers might find attractive. The writing highlighted the insecurity and hypocrisy of the author. Mostly, the article was a waste of time to read.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#48

It's very telling about what kind of people make up this community when all the up-voted comments are attacks on the author and very limited actual discussion on the topic itself yet the down-voted comments are speaking to the actual problem. You don't have to like the author or their demeanor, but to flag this thread is neglecting how the topic itself is a good fit for HN. What I'm seeing right now is reflective of…

The argument wasn't strong in any way, in my opinion. The article itself limited the discussion by taking a demeanor that is effectively an attack on all college graduates because of anecdotal evidence misapplied as representative. There was no discussion as to what alternatives are to a college degree that employers might find attractive. The writing highlighted the insecurity and hypocrisy of the author. Mostly, th…

> It falsely signals to employers that you’re better than the average Jane just because you have a piece of paper

> I preceded to tell him that it doesn’t matter if you have a college degree anymore to do today’s jobs and that he was basically bragging about his family’s socioeconomic status, not his son’s actual achievements. I tried to elaborate about the inequalities of higher education and why it’s an outdated metric of future success. I explained why employers are absolutely wrong for thinking his son is better than someone without a degree or a degree from a public university.

These are important points to consider and I don't see how it's a "waste of time to read". The author provided data from different sources to backup their claim. Do you have any sources to counter those claims?

> anecdotal evidence misapplied as representative

Such as? Did you happen to skip over ALL the other sources they used to prove their point?

> There was no discussion as to what alternatives are to a college degree that employers might find attractive

So? This discussion section is a good place for that. Why don't you offer some alternatives since you've thought on it?

You're taking an article with enough substance to have a valuable discussion around it and poo-pooing it away because the author is inferior relative to your subjective standards. That's what I'm getting from your comment.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument wasn't strong in any way, in my opinion. The article itself limited the discussion by taking a demeanor that is effectively an attack on all college graduates because of anecdotal evidence misapplied as representative. There was no discussion as to what alternatives are to a college degree that employers might find attractive. The writing highlighted the insecurity and hypocrisy of the author. Mostly, th…

> It falsely signals to employers that you’re better than the average Jane just because you have a piece of paper > I preceded to tell him that it doesn’t matter if you have a college degree anymore to do today’s jobs and that he was basically bragging about his family’s socioeconomic status, not his son’s actual achievements. I tried to elaborate about the inequalities of higher education and why it’s an outdated me…

> It falsely signals to employers that you’re better than the average Jane just because you have a piece of paper

This is a reductionist argument stating that everything you learn in college is just a piece of paper. It's a bad faith argument. If you believe it, you weren't convinced and if you don't believe it, you still weren't convinced. The whole intent was to be polarizing.

> I preceded to tell him that it doesn’t matter if you have a college degree anymore to do today’s jobs and that he was basically bragging about his family’s socioeconomic status, not his son’s actual achievements. I tried to elaborate about the inequalities of higher education and why it’s an outdated metric of future success. I explained why employers are absolutely wrong for thinking his son is better than someone without a degree or a degree from a public university.

This is a clear example of hypocrisy and an opinion that is regurgitated over and over in the article. The man being discussed never asserted that his son was better than everyone else, that was the author's excessive bias. Believe it or not, many fathers are proud of their childrens' achievements. The whole argument being peddled is that nothing of value was gained and that this man needed to be put in his place by the author because she's better than his son.

The "data" that the author provided was mostly correlation (not causation) with wealth and people doing well in college. That doesn't imply in any way that people that have strong support systems but not wealth cannot do well. The argument is fallacious.

The tone that the author set for the article in the very beginning is that people are supposed to be enraged, like the author is, that employers want some indication that the candidate is a good quality candidate. In the current system, that often means getting a college degree. Employers want the closest thing they can get to a guarantee that the candidate knows something. Without proposing an alternative this was just a poorly supported rant by the author. Your devil's advocate that I must stimulate discussion because the author did not is again, fallacious.

>> anecdotal evidence misapplied as representative

> Such as? Did you happen to skip over ALL the other sources they used to prove their point?

Such as using specific schools when talking about corruption but then using all schools in the later points about performance. Presumably, people with the prestigious degrees would have better job performance but no stratified data was used in that discussion. To me, it appears as though the author had a point they wanted to make and did the bare minimum research to make that point without questioning whether it was right.

With this in mind, I don't find that the article had all that much substance other than cherry-picked statistics and made no effort to to have any nuance. The takeaway was supposed to be that all people with college degrees got no value because the author had no nuance.

>You're taking an article with enough substance to have a valuable discussion around it and poo-pooing it away because the author is inferior relative to your subjective standards. That's what I'm getting from your comment.

You're asserting that I am assessing that the author is inferior because she doesn't have a college degree? I actually don't know whether the author has a college degree, but don't find the points particularly convincing either way.

I am stating that I don't believe the article to have much valuable substance beyond the clickbait title. You're asking me to invent substance for the article in the comments because of your opinion that the article hits some critical point.

Re: Is Requiring a College Degree Discrimination? Yes, It Is

#50
post #34

All three cases by this author are only controversial because we have ignored a greater point: colleges don’t exist to get you a job. They exist for a class of society, a finishing school where they all meet each other and collaborate on the obscure arts that weave the fabric of our reality. It has been this way for a millennium. The workforce started using them en masse 60 years ago and we’ve been trying to patch th…

I'm continually surprised with how few people, even on HN, understand why private education exacerbates inequality. Limiting access to valuable information to only those who know how to navigate the secretive process will favor those with means. In this case the valuable information impacts lifetime earning income potential hence perpetuating inequality. I think this blind spot is because many people derive part of t…

Except in science this is largely untrue. There is very little Stanford can teach you about computer science that Berkeley can’t.

It’s been shown that the class someone ends up in is far more correlated with their parents than their college. This is why poor kids who go to Harvard typically don’t get rich.

People tend to vastly overestimate the effect a college has on income for almost all fields.

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