Live data from Hacker News

How do you handle your Aging in IT?

news.ycombinator.com

41–48 of 48 posts

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#41
I'm 70 this year, older and slower but still interested in CS. Everyone will have a different background, but here are some things that have helped me.

I keep most of my books. I now have a technical library of several thousand books acquired over half a century of doing math, programming, and CS. I remember where to find things in books better than online since the online territory shifts constantly. So, if I'm looking for a "modern" quicksort I use Sedgwick and if I want to review Prim's algorithm I use Cormin, et. al. Books are easier to read and carry around the house. Books are quicker to skim though than YouTube videos. I can see my old margin notes in books. Even mundane books, like my Assembly Language reference for the CDC 6600 mainframe, can come in handy many years later. I recall pulling it out and looking at it's unique ASM language just a couple of year ago for some idea I had.

I've programmed in somewhere between 40 and 100 programming languages. Some, I've lost track of because I didn't keep my books, but when HN has an active thread on Prolog I can go back and look at the half dozen books on Prolog programming I've got.

The younger me didn't realize how I might want to review the now classic IBM 360 Principles of Operation manual many years later; sadly, there a lot of books I wished I had kept but didn't.

Keep reading. I'm currently working through An Invitation to Applied Category Theory by Fong and Spivak.

Take classes. I found that taking real university courses really help me refresh things I learned years ago. Some are available online, but I am lucky enough to have a world class university here in town where I have taken maybe six courses over the years, usually just one or two per year. I'm able to register there for real math and CS classes at the undergrad and graduate level and these have been great experiences. Not everyone will be able to do this, but there are online alternatives. There is a big disadvantage though, universities expect the students to conform to their schedule. So forget about taking a trip to Europe with your partner in the middle of a semester. One can generally only take a university class in person if you have complete control over your own schedule (i.e. self-employed or semi-retired).

Become a member of the ACM and at a minimum read the monthly Communications of the ACM. The unique value of the ACM for me is access to their Digital Library of every past ACM article published. Want to read Dijkstra's famous "Go To Considered Harmful"? It's in the Digital Library.

Do personal projects. Solve the "Bomb Lab", for example. Write programs to generate mazes, there is a book for this. Implement a ray-tracer, there is a book for that too. Write a compiler for Pascal (many books for this) in Common Lisp. Write a program to play Othello. Write a 2D game using Open GL. Some of these can be a bit daunting, but I find writing programs are the best way to learn new programming languages. Some of this will depend on your background.

Learn Python. Many programmers will already know Python, but if not, it's very easy to pick up. It's perfect for one-person projects: easy to get into, concise and expressive. When a project needs better performance try go. It's also easy to get into and is a great programming language for typical professional systems work. These two languages will allow you to stay relevant and to do a wide variety of personal projects.

Get a big monitor. It's much easier on my eyes to have a large monitor sitting farther away from me than a laptop sitting close to me.

Exercise seems to keep my mind sharp. In my late 50s I did marathons. This was hard on my body so I might recommend half-marathons as reasonable goals. Now, I've switched to swimming (I don't really like it as much as running, but it is easier on my knees).

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#43

You have to be sharper than before. Age is a point against you, so you have to step up your game.

It's striking that this dark truth got two downvotes. I'm curious what the downvoters thought they were saying.

Speaking as a geezer dev, I am very confident that age is an obstacle. I am also confident that it doesn't have to stop us. It is a handicap and if we excel we can beat it.

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#44
post #2

> OR should I just suck it up? Why not both? I'm certain you've got the soft skills to stand up for yourself as well as blow off a little steam all while doing your job at a satisfactory level.

Sure, there's plenty of opportunity there, and a little pressure to manage. I don't want to manage. That would take the last little bit of technical enjoyment and remove it completely. That doesn't make sense to me.

> I don't want to manage.

Sweet Jesus and all the saints, neither do I.

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#45

Consider a job at a university. It can be hard to get in if you don't know somebody, but that's true anywhere. Many university jobs are given to friends/family even though they are ostensibly/legally posted publicly. You'll find many more older people there. There is politics, as there is anywhere, and the technology tends to be more boring and proven vs. new and exciting, but sometimes it's cutting-edge if you can f…

Isn't hard to get a job at a university if you don't have a PhD or are a candidate (at least in US)?

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#46
post #12

You might consider contracting. I've been doing that the past few years and loving it. One of the things is that I get to (have to, in fact) choose my projects, so the clients I say yes to are ones whose projects I am interested in at a level beyond just "you'll pay me". They also tend to be in my specialties (UI, graphics, C++, iOS, in my case). I find that I learn a lot more, too, because generally the projects las…

Any advice for how you bootstrapped this and started to get clients? I find that the hardest part about taking the leap and leaving a full-time role.

The easiest way is with an agency. I've used Toptal a lot, and moonlight.com seems promising. I had a really wonderful client through the HN monthly freelancer thread. My current geographical area does not have much in the way of software, so I probably need to move to get local clients.

I would normally worry about finances, but I happened to be forced into it due to some (non-tech) classes I wanted to take, which was helpful because I'd already decided I was going to be burning money that year. And the previous year I was working on an iOS app on my own in Asia (= low cost of living), so I'd already discovered--a little to my surprise--that the sky didn't fall in if you don't have an income. I've discovered it usually takes me about a month to find a new client, but I'm sure that depends on the developer, experience, and subfield. If I wanted to do webdev it'd probably be a lot faster. If you want a conservative plan, I'd recommend saving 6 - 12 months of expenses, line up a client with the understanding that you would not be able to start for 2-4 weeks, and then quit. Or maybe you could arrange with your company to transition out more gradually. At some point, though, the water isn't going to get any warmer, you just have to jump in the pool and scream underwater for a few seconds until you get used to it :)

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#47
post #41

I'm 70 this year, older and slower but still interested in CS. Everyone will have a different background, but here are some things that have helped me. I keep most of my books. I now have a technical library of several thousand books acquired over half a century of doing math, programming, and CS. I remember where to find things in books better than online since the online territory shifts constantly. So, if I'm look…

Thanks for this. Lots of good information to ponder. Reflecting, I'm still active and doing things I'm interested in (putting a modern engine in a 60's motorcycle because I wanted to, and it was the most expedient way to do so), I get on the road bike every other day, and there's plenty of plans and things to work for.

I think the part that's been making me hyperventilate is that I'm at an inflection point in my career, adapt or die, and the things I've been great at and paid well for...I won't be. I've got good skills and intuition at handling security data at scale and need to lean into that. Creating and maintaining the infrastructure to do that is what's going away.

I was in incident response and occasionally miss it. It was VERY interesting, but If I'm honest, I don't think I was enjoying it at the time. I certainly didn't enjoy the schedule the attackers made me keep.

Your observations on having a library are things I've seen in other people in the field, I shied away from it because it always seemed like the things I was interested in hadn't fully gelled yet, And it always seemed that way. So now the internet is my library, with no margin notes and many more hits returned to overwhelm.

I hear ya on the Monitor front. Working on cars/motorcycles has gotten a lot more difficult lately as things are too dim, too close to see with my glasses on, and just far enough away to see with my glasses off.

Re: How do you handle your Aging in IT?

#48
post #4

I don’t handle it. I just try to stay fit with exercise and nutrition, get plenty of sleep, and do what I can. Mentor where I can, and also learn from the youngs and learn their perspectives. And I don’t beat myself up over any perceived shortcomings.

I'm thinking feeling 'not as sharp' is exacerbating the growing skills gap. There's ALWAYS been stuff I didn't know, It's just that now that seems to be accelerating and I'm not as well equipped to handle it. Doubly so where security is concerned. You used to secure something by knowing all aspects of the application...you knew the OS, the software, the firewall rules, you had a small batch of logs you could conceiva…

It might feel like being "not as sharp", but perhaps it's more self-awareness.

As I grow older, I'm not any dumber or less wise, but I'm definitely far more aware of what I don't know.

Additionally, technology systems are getting more and more complex, which exacerbates the feeling. This is a big reason why I focus hard on and continually revisit the fundamentals. Being an expert on the fundamentals of systems will save you.

Post reply on HN