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Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

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Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#41

Post by sam_lowry_ »

dimator wrote: post #35
wyldfire wrote: post #31

In case you missed it: Navalny found conclusive evidence of a cover-up for his poisoning [1] [2] [3]. But the best part is how he did it: caller ID spoof + social engineering. IMO exploiting the authoritarian nature/culture was really clever. Every time Kudryavtsev demurs about revealing more details, Navalny (as Ustinov) calls him by his full name. To me, it sounds like he's threatening him or reminding him of their…

I'm amazed at the amateur nature of the guy on that call. If he's GRU/FSB trained, why would he trust a caller ID from base, and nothing else? Surely there's better opsec than this.

A fish rots from the head. These GRU/FSB boys enjoy complete immunity from prosecution, why would they stay professional if only loyalty is rewarded?

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#42

Post by sam_lowry_ »

longtimegoogler wrote: post #34
kyrieeschaton wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security agencies of democratic regimes (that happen to be marginally accountable to the people elected) don't have the ability to synthesize known molecules and use them for political purposes? They don't have the ability to lie under the piercing eyes of lady liberty? That's sort of what they exist for. https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/04/cia-director-used-fake...

That site is a shit show. Do you have a better source?

This is The Lancet, dude. The single source of truth for the medical profession ;-)

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#43

Post by waypoint100 »

It's amazing that people really believe in these conspiracy theories about evil Russian government which tries to kill people with Novichok, an agent so powerful that it cant kill anyone.

There are much more simple and effective ways. E.g. just hire a street thug, pretend a robbery

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#44

Post by MagnumOpus »

tyingq wrote: post #10

Polonium, Dioxin, Novichok. I wonder what they use when they want to be more stealthy about it.

They don't want or need to be stealthy. But when they don't want to send a message, most recently they seem to use stabbing, shooting, throwing out of high-rise windows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#45

Post by LittlePeter »

dimator wrote: post #35
wyldfire wrote: post #31

In case you missed it: Navalny found conclusive evidence of a cover-up for his poisoning [1] [2] [3]. But the best part is how he did it: caller ID spoof + social engineering. IMO exploiting the authoritarian nature/culture was really clever. Every time Kudryavtsev demurs about revealing more details, Navalny (as Ustinov) calls him by his full name. To me, it sounds like he's threatening him or reminding him of their…

I'm amazed at the amateur nature of the guy on that call. If he's GRU/FSB trained, why would he trust a caller ID from base, and nothing else? Surely there's better opsec than this.

I think when you have so many FSB agents it is hard to maintain the quality.

See for example here, where a bunch of FSB agent graduates decided to celebrate in the open: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/11/world/geliki-russia-fsb-j...

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#46

Post by gdy »

nikivi wrote: post #6

The things happening in Russia before the protest on Saturday is dystopian. Police take into custody anyone who is trying to promote it, schools are suddenly open and students are being scared by threats of disqualification if they go outside on that day. I hope this dictatorship ends soon. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace and enforcing more police and mi…

"I wouldn’t want to live in a country where nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace and enforcing more police and military."

I wouldn't want to have UKOS returned to the owners who got it dirt-cheap during 'privatization' in 90s and taxes on the extraction of natural resources reduced to the pre-Putin level. This one thing -- raising taxes on the wealth generated from selling natural resources -- pays a hundred times for Putin's palace.

As for our military, I'd rather have it strong, why wouldn't you?

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#47

Post by jannes »

dimator wrote: post #35
wyldfire wrote: post #31

In case you missed it: Navalny found conclusive evidence of a cover-up for his poisoning [1] [2] [3]. But the best part is how he did it: caller ID spoof + social engineering. IMO exploiting the authoritarian nature/culture was really clever. Every time Kudryavtsev demurs about revealing more details, Navalny (as Ustinov) calls him by his full name. To me, it sounds like he's threatening him or reminding him of their…

I'm amazed at the amateur nature of the guy on that call. If he's GRU/FSB trained, why would he trust a caller ID from base, and nothing else? Surely there's better opsec than this.

I think that specific agent was a chemist who was in charge of applying the poison (which is apparently so dangerous that experts have to do it). He likely didn’t get the full GRU/FSB training.

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#48

Post by jannes »

waypoint100 wrote: post #43

It's amazing that people really believe in these conspiracy theories about evil Russian government which tries to kill people with Novichok, an agent so powerful that it cant kill anyone. There are much more simple and effective ways. E.g. just hire a street thug, pretend a robbery

Did you not see the YouTube video where one of the agents admits it on the phone and describes the process?

I thought it was already established that Russia did this beyond reasonable doubt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwvA49ZXnf8

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#49

Post by twelve40 »

nikivi wrote: post #6

The things happening in Russia before the protest on Saturday is dystopian. Police take into custody anyone who is trying to promote it, schools are suddenly open and students are being scared by threats of disqualification if they go outside on that day. I hope this dictatorship ends soon. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace and enforcing more police and mi…

"nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace"

hyperbole much? like, really?

"all your taxes" - 12 trillion roubles, roughly $171 billion in one year out of the total federal budget of ~20 trillion roubles ($285 billion) Федеральная налоговая служба администрировала за год доходы на 12 трлн 612,13 млрд рублей https://www.interfax.ru/business/691856

the palace, whoever owns it, cost ~$1.5 billion, presumably over 15 years > Стоимость дворца с постройками ФБК оценивает в 100 миллиардов рублей

"siloviki" budget - 2 trillion roubles, ~$28 billion https://www.rbc.ru/politics/23/10/2016/580a526d9a7947cb56546...

military budget - $65 billion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_...

Let's do some math: $28 billion for the "police" $65 billion for the military (U.S. spends ~$700 billion of the total federal budget of $3.9 trillion for FY2018, that's about ~20%, about the same) $1.5 billion for the "palace"

None of this stuff combined is "nearly all your taxes", so why would you claim something like that? "more police and military" seems to be no different then what the other countries are doing. The dude might have stolen this palace, but why would you make nonsensical claims?

Re: Novichok Nerve Agent Poisoning

#50

Post by nikivi »

twelve40 wrote: post #49
nikivi wrote: post #6

The things happening in Russia before the protest on Saturday is dystopian. Police take into custody anyone who is trying to promote it, schools are suddenly open and students are being scared by threats of disqualification if they go outside on that day. I hope this dictatorship ends soon. I wouldn’t want to live in a country where nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace and enforcing more police and mi…

"nearly all your taxes get spent on building a palace" hyperbole much? like, really? "all your taxes" - 12 trillion roubles, roughly $171 billion in one year out of the total federal budget of ~20 trillion roubles ($285 billion) Федеральная налоговая служба администрировала за год доходы на 12 трлн 612,13 млрд рублей https://www.interfax.ru/business/691856 the palace, whoever owns it, cost ~$1.5 billion, presumably o…

The palace is just one event. Lots more money gets stolen not for the sake of building a palace but enriching few individuals in various other ways.

It is a hyperbole indeed and thank you for the detailed breakdown. The truth is, if not 'nearly all', it's certainly a very sizable portion of the tax budget that gets stolen. Enjoyed this video on the topic from one politician in Moscow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWyzudWioY

Also on the topic of breakdowns that you cited, I have hard time believing things that get written in these 'official reports'. There are many ways to hide where money actually gets spent. This also gets talked about in the above video.

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