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Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

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Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#41

Post by ars »

hugh3 wrote: post #3

Unfortunately does nothing to change my view that authors should probably keep away from their own reviews. If he'd had some brilliant new insight that would be one thing, but instead he just comes off as slightly more defensive than anyone who has sold tens of millions of books should. I guess it was 1999 when this was written, though, so the norms for online reviews had not yet been established.

These days Amazon has a place where writers can comment on their books. It may not have existed in 1999.

It's one thing to fake a review, but there's nothing wrong with using that spot to talk to your readers.

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#42

Post by grandalf »

burgerbrain wrote: post #34
grandalf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it's reasonable. But do I judge Steve Jobs by what toppings he likes on his pizza or what kind of rap he listens to? No. I may agree or disagree with him, but his opinions on those matters have no bearing whatsoever on my primary relationship with him, which is as a purchaser of the hardware and software he designs. Similarly with Card, I am a reader of his fiction and so I don't care what color socks he wears,…

Preferred pizza toppings are in no way comparable to homophobic statements.

I think they are equivalent b/c both are simply aesthetic preferences. Neither is trying to persuade others to adopt his aesthetic preference. Neither is an expert on the topic being opined about.

At best one might claim that such a statement is ignorant. I think we start to get into trouble when we assume that an expert in one narrow area (such as fiction writing) should be/act non-ignorant in other areas of life. That is wishful thinking. It also suggests that we ought to expect "more" from someone with a narrow talent. Should a NFL player have perfect spelling? Should an olympic pole vaulter have a nuanced understanding of morality?

Human aptitude is very narrow and we should appreciate it where we find it and not look to put anyone on a broad pedestal.

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#43

Post by saraid216 »

mcritz wrote: post #27
hugh3 wrote: post #3

Unfortunately does nothing to change my view that authors should probably keep away from their own reviews. If he'd had some brilliant new insight that would be one thing, but instead he just comes off as slightly more defensive than anyone who has sold tens of millions of books should. I guess it was 1999 when this was written, though, so the norms for online reviews had not yet been established.

I felt similarly. “Why not write a blog post?” I thought.

A blog post in 1999 is asking a little much.

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#44

Post by starwed »

saraid216 wrote: post #43
mcritz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt similarly. “Why not write a blog post?” I thought.

A blog post in 1999 is asking a little much.

But then again, Ender's Game included the general idea of blogs as a plot point... (Not sure what else you would classify Peter/Valentine's self-published online essays as.)

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#45

Post by icarus_drowning »

starwed wrote: post #44
saraid216 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blog post in 1999 is asking a little much.

But then again, Ender's Game included the general idea of blogs as a plot point ... (Not sure what else you would classify Peter/Valentine's self-published online essays as.)

Aren't they explicitly described as forum postings?

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#46

Post by invalidOrTaken »

araneae wrote: post #37
grandalf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author misunderstands what Card is trying to say in response to her questions. Also, she evidently misunderstood Ender's Game quite a bit as well. Ender was suited to be a brilliant military commander precisely because he hated killing so much. A more bloodthirsty commander would have fallen for certain traps, committed certain errors of judgment that Ender was immune to. The nuance here is that Ender's strategic…

I would take issue with your view that Card isn't homophobic. From "The Hypocrites of Homosexuality" by Orson Scott Card: "Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message to those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitte…

"Homophobic" gets bandied about to the point of losing its meaning. "Unreasoning fear/antipathy towards homosexuals/homosexuality" is what the dictionary spat out, and I suspect Card would say 1) it's not "unreasoning" 2)"antipathy towards homosexuality" != "evil."

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#47

Post by nl »

ab9 wrote: post #21

"No book, however good, can survive a hostile reading." Is that really true? The first Orwell book I read ( Homage to Catalonia ) was required for a history class -- a class that had previously assigned some truly awful literature. So I was pessimistic and I read it grudgingly at first. But halfway through the book, I realized I loved it.

I had the same experience with Watership Down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watership_Down

I was set to read it when I was 14 or 15 in English. What 14 or 15 yo boy wants to read a book about a rabbit? I was wrong, and loved it, then went and read every other book Richard Adams wrote.

So I guess it's not impossible, but at the same time I was probably broad minded enough to change my mind. Many people won't.

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#48

Post by stonemetal »

Entaroadun wrote: post #23
pitdesi wrote: post #5

I love Ender's Game and all of OSC's other books, but it seems like he might be a terrible guy... more on that in this very interesting interview: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/02/03/card

Can't we make distinctions between the guy's philosophy and his writing? I for one do not feel the book (or any book) is diminished by my perception of the author as a person.

When an author's writing consistently expresses their personal philosophy as "The Right Thing", it is hard to draw a line between the two. I don't find it to be true of Card as much as say Heinlein but his politics are clearly visible in his work.

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#49

Post by telemachos »

grandalf wrote: post #13
pitdesi wrote: post #5

I love Ender's Game and all of OSC's other books, but it seems like he might be a terrible guy... more on that in this very interesting interview: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2000/02/03/card

The author misunderstands what Card is trying to say in response to her questions. Also, she evidently misunderstood Ender's Game quite a bit as well. Ender was suited to be a brilliant military commander precisely because he hated killing so much. A more bloodthirsty commander would have fallen for certain traps, committed certain errors of judgment that Ender was immune to. The nuance here is that Ender's strategic…

> You say, "He is clearly not homophobic."

In the interview, Card says "I find the comparison between civil rights based on race and supposed new rights being granted for what amounts to deviant behavior to be really kind of ridiculous. There is no comparison. A black as a person does not by being black harm anyone. Gay rights is a collective delusion that's being attempted" (emphasis mine).

Calling homosexuality "deviant behavior" upsets me, but the really revealing part, I think is the bit I emphasized. The implication certainly appears to be that (by parity of reasoning) "A homosexual does harm someone simply by being homosexual".

If that's not homophobic, I don't know what is.

Re: Orson Scott Card's Amazon Review of Ender's Game

#50

Post by stonemetal »

grandalf wrote: post #42
burgerbrain wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preferred pizza toppings are in no way comparable to homophobic statements.

I think they are equivalent b/c both are simply aesthetic preferences. Neither is trying to persuade others to adopt his aesthetic preference. Neither is an expert on the topic being opined about. At best one might claim that such a statement is ignorant. I think we start to get into trouble when we assume that an expert in one narrow area (such as fiction writing) should be/act non-ignorant in other areas of life. T…

Neither is trying to persuade others to adopt his aesthetic preference. He wishes to make it illegal how is that not pushing his views on others?
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