Have we already been visited by aliens? • Hacker News Board

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#41

Post by Xcelerate » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

Tangential to the article, but I’m not sure why more isn’t mentioned about what I consider to be the most likely reason we haven’t been visited by aliens: they probably exist somewhere due to the sheer size of the universe, but the speed of light is indeed the fundamental limit to classical information transfer as our current understanding of physics predicts, and therefore we are simply too far away from any sort of intelligence that exists out there to contact or reach us.

It’s a simple and boring explanation but from my perspective also the most likely.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#42

Post by Retric » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #35

> Loeb, though, explicitly rejects the Sagan standard—“It is not obvious to me why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” he observes—and flips its logic on its head: “Extraordinary conservatism keeps us extraordinarily ignorant.” So long as there’s a chance that 1I/2017 U1 is an alien probe, we’d be fools not to pursue the idea. “If we acknowledge that ‘Oumuamua is plausibly of extraterrestrial-techno…

Yea, the actual fallacy is thinking you must identify what something is before you have enough information. 1I/2017 U1 is an unknown object and that’s perfectly ok. It didn’t display any radio signals, unusual thrust, or extreme velocity requiring it to be an alien probe. But, that doesn’t prevent it from being a probe either.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#43

Post by cpuguy83 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

The ideals behind the Prime Directive were from Vulcan influence. The theory behind it is they tried to do exactly that and it led to disaster in every case.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#44

Post by _Microft » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #21

mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

You should try DS9 when you're done with TNG. It's very different, but still great. I think they're some of the best shows ever made, especially because they didn't tiptoe around ethical dilemmas, they made them a main part of each episode's plot.

„Computer – erase that entire personal log“

This is from the DS9 episode „In the pale Moonlight“. Check Memory Alpha if you want to know more but be aware that reading about this episode would be a massive spoiler if you haven’t watched DS9. Either way DS9 is absolutely recommended.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#45

Post by eloff » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #35

> Loeb, though, explicitly rejects the Sagan standard—“It is not obvious to me why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” he observes—and flips its logic on its head: “Extraordinary conservatism keeps us extraordinarily ignorant.” So long as there’s a chance that 1I/2017 U1 is an alien probe, we’d be fools not to pursue the idea. “If we acknowledge that ‘Oumuamua is plausibly of extraterrestrial-techno…

> I don't think very many people are saying it is impossible that Oumuamua was an alien construct and actively discouraging science based on the idea it could be.

Actually yes. You'll be laughed out of the virtual room, not get funding, and potentially damage your career.

As he points out in his interview with Lex (linked elsewhere in the comments here) is fine to propose a multi billion dollar experiment to detect oxygen on exoplanets, which is not conclusive evidence of life, but to search for industrial pollution is a non starter for exactly this reason. But that would yield much more interesting results (both for negative and positive results.)

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#46

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

excitom wrote: post #11

Such an object would function as a sail—one powered by light, rather than by wind. The natural world doesn’t produce sails; people do. What about jellyfish that move about the oceans pushed by wind?

It's a weird statement that confuses the purpose of an object with what an object does. Purpose exists only in our heads; natural objects don't have one. There is no tag attached to atoms.

In other words, anything that behaves as a sail would, can be called a sail. And there are plenty of objects around us that behave as sails, not made such by humans, or made so unintentionally.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#47

Post by tiborsaas » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

Prof David Kipping did a point-by-point analysis of Loeb's claims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX_Bj7064Ms

TLDW: most likely a natural object.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#48

Post by readmodifywrite » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

There are TNG episodes that specifically deal with that, and the problems it causes. I think ENT had a few as well, instances which led them to the creation of the Prime Directive.

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#49

Post by sgt101 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

excitom wrote: post #11

Such an object would function as a sail—one powered by light, rather than by wind. The natural world doesn’t produce sails; people do. What about jellyfish that move about the oceans pushed by wind?

Or even more fun the idea than some pterosaurs were in fact sailers!

https://phys.org/news/2009-10-ancient-pterosaur-seas-video.h...

Re: Have we already been visited by aliens?

#50

Post by Xelbair » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

wait_a_minute wrote: post #39

mrbonner wrote: post #17

I just started to watch the 1993 series Star Trek new generation. The show has some interesting ideas regarding advanced civilizations vs the primitive ones. One of which is called the prime directive prohibiting any star fleet from intervening with the evolution of primitive people. In one of the episodes “who watches the watcher” the USS enterprise travels to planet Minkita 2 for a rescue mission and encounters a p…

That's one of the biggest problems I have with Star Trek. If we were literally gods by comparison to some fledgling species, the only ethical approach would be to elevate them and cure their diseases and advance their knowledge as quickly as humanly possible.

but were we, humanity, gods?

There is always a chance that the Higher Civilization missed something - culturally, scientifically or artistically speaking. Letting such civilization emerge, and help them ascend when they reach certain level seems to be saner and safer approach.

The Higher Civilization might've been stuck in local maxima, adding such random element might let the Higher Civilisation absorb the best parts and move towards another, better local maxima.