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The Dream Job That Wasn’t

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Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#41

Post by bumby »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #33
skadamat wrote: post #13

Cal Newport became famous for his books "Deep Work" and "Digital Minimalism", but my favorite / most underrated book by him is actually "So Good They Can't Ignore You": https://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/ In SGTCIU, he really goes deep on the idea that pre-existing passion is unlikely to lead you to a happy career and presents an alternate, more-compelling framework for job satisfaction. 1. Acquire rare & valua…

>'There are happy & fulfilled people in every career and, of course, unhappy people in every career / walk of life. But pretty much everyone wants the same thing in their career: mission, autonomy, impact, and creativity. These traits ^ are mostly independent of a specific job / field' I think this is untrue. It depends on how one understands mission, autonomy, impact and creativity whether they can be achieved indep…

I’ve heard of similar frameworks that replace “creativity” with “a skill you can hone”.

Both creativity and working at the edge of your ability can create flow states. Being lost in the moment might be what both of these are ultimately after

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#42

Post by swsieber »

I think dream jobs are like soul mates. Yeah, you have good fits, but there's not just one perfect job for you, upon which all personal fulfillment is predicated. Not to say you can't find a job that makes you super happy...

I think more important is to not hinge your personal happiness or fulfillment on having a particular job, just like wasting your life waiting to find Mr./Mrs. Right.

Yeah, there's a lot more nuance to this than I give; and I have a family, so that greatly impacts my view and perspective. I think generally the principal holds though - don't link fulfillment to some ideal event you're waiting for.

Caveat emptor, yada yada.

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#43

Post by throw1234651234 »

leetrout wrote: post #4

I’ve had a fantastic career which I am thankful for. My dream job is to be a pilot which I accept I will never do and can imagine the aspects that make it “just a job”. More relatable, in my experience, is the dream company. Accepting that you are committed to software development as a career different companies then take the place of a dream job. Google with all their perks of working on site. 37Signals / Basecamp a…

I don't understand "pilot" as dream job. You basically take off and land once you hit commercial.

I get the learning part - the first time you learn how redundant and simple Cessna engines are, the first time you realize how light and simple it really is, how to tie it down, your first time trying to fly with instruments only, your first crosswind landing, etc. But after that? Really seems like "just a job".

Btw, not a pilot in any sense, just took some very discounted classes.

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#44

Post by dusted »

skadamat wrote: post #13

Cal Newport became famous for his books "Deep Work" and "Digital Minimalism", but my favorite / most underrated book by him is actually "So Good They Can't Ignore You": https://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/ In SGTCIU, he really goes deep on the idea that pre-existing passion is unlikely to lead you to a happy career and presents an alternate, more-compelling framework for job satisfaction. 1. Acquire rare & valua…

Those traits largely ignore the actual problem, which is not to have every individual optimize themselves out of "getting the crappy jobs", it actually hurts the issue by making it into a competition to avoid the crap, implying that those who do that must be forced to do it, by not being competent enough to escape. "It's their own fault they have to work there, because they weren't good enough to escape" should be worded "It's their own fault they have to work there, because they weren't so much better than everyone else that they could escape, they deserve it because they're not better than everyone else who is also trying hard".

WTF is wrong with 'muricans for thinking like that? This is not a zero-sum game, or at least, it does not have to be.

It's much more interesting to focus on not having a society where you can do important work and not be treated well for it. I'm helluva lot more grateful that someone comes around once a week in a big garbage-truck and takes away my garbage, than I am that some hipster with a macbook is making some new webgui framework that will "change the world". I can do without the webgui framework infinitely more than without the garbage-man.

We should be focusing on building a society where no job means poverty, that's not even an ambitious goal, it's the absolutely least you can expect of a decent society with decent people living in it. Sure, there can be competition for highest-paying jobs and for whatever are considered more pleasurable jobs, but nobody in any job at all, should be in a bad situation because of their job, if they have a job, if that job exists, society have decided they need them, and it's every ones duty to treat them well and with respect.

So, thanks garbage dude, your job is more important than mine, at least you live in a more civilized country where you can afford more or less the same things I can.

Or as the article writes so much better:

> “What’s the issue with giving people decent jobs that allow them to have decent lives?” This reality might sound deflating, especially for a kid thinking about what they want to be when they grow up, but looked at another way, it can also be quite enchanting. If a dream job is like any other job, then isn’t making all jobs better the dream?

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#45

Post by bumby »

paulcole wrote: post #15
skadamat wrote: post #13

Cal Newport became famous for his books "Deep Work" and "Digital Minimalism", but my favorite / most underrated book by him is actually "So Good They Can't Ignore You": https://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/ In SGTCIU, he really goes deep on the idea that pre-existing passion is unlikely to lead you to a happy career and presents an alternate, more-compelling framework for job satisfaction. 1. Acquire rare & valua…

> But pretty much everyone wants the same thing in their career: mission, autonomy, impact, and creativity There’s another model I use that I’ve found to be pretty accurate for most people: SCARF. Status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, and fairness. https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/SCARF.htm

The problem with status is that it’s completely relative and ultimately not in your control.

You might be the team captain but there’s likely another athlete who’s better. Status is driven by comparison and, as Teddy Roosevelt said, comparison is the thief of joy. Beyond that, it means putting stock largely into what other people think which can be in a natural juxtaposition to autonomy

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#47

Post by Emma_Goldman »

bumby wrote: post #41
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'There are happy & fulfilled people in every career and, of course, unhappy people in every career / walk of life. But pretty much everyone wants the same thing in their career: mission, autonomy, impact, and creativity. These traits ^ are mostly independent of a specific job / field' I think this is untrue. It depends on how one understands mission, autonomy, impact and creativity whether they can be achieved indep…

I’ve heard of similar frameworks that replace “creativity” with “a skill you can hone”. Both creativity and working at the edge of your ability can create flow states. Being lost in the moment might be what both of these are ultimately after

The substitution might work better, you're right, but that's also effectively admitting that most jobs aren't creative. There is a qualitative difference between working close to the limit of one's abilities in a flow state, and having one's own ideas, following through the implications, and executing it using one's own wits. That's creative, and in my experience a lot more gratifying than just being engrossed in work.

In any case I think it's a mistake to become too transfixed by what features of work are most conducive to happiness. Yes, happiness is important. Perhaps it's the single most important criteria for choosing a line of work. But there are other, larger objectives - e.g., helping humankind, producing great things, being authentic to oneself, and leading a good life.

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#48

Post by sjg007 »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #28

My dream job was to be an MD. I went to a grade deflationary undergrad, UChicago, and was too interested in music, social life, and sleeping to achieve a high GPA. I scored 90th percentile on the MCAT and had choruses, piano, humanities, and research in my background, but merely having a 3.35 GPA meant I got 0 interviews after 11 applications to medical school. How devastating is that: you dream to be an MD for a dec…

You could probably still become an MD if you really want it. Go volunteer, maybe in a 3rd world country. You might have to retake some of the qualification classes too. The Caribbean med schools seem to be a good deal. I know a guy who went from being a professional chef to MD in his thirties. There's going to be a big shortage of doctors and I think covid burnout is probably a thing too.

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#49

Post by moneywoes »

mStreamTeam wrote: post #24
ta988 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not call these last ones dream jobs. More like dream-crushing jobs...

That post sound sounds like it was written by someone who dreams of getting power and status. If power us your dream, working for a 3 letter is one way of getting it.

3 letter organization aka NSA?

Re: The Dream Job That Wasn’t

#50

Post by bumby »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #47
bumby wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard of similar frameworks that replace “creativity” with “a skill you can hone”. Both creativity and working at the edge of your ability can create flow states. Being lost in the moment might be what both of these are ultimately after

The substitution might work better, you're right, but that's also effectively admitting that most jobs aren't creative. There is a qualitative difference between working close to the limit of one's abilities in a flow state, and having one's own ideas, following through the implications, and executing it using one's own wits. That's creative, and in my experience a lot more gratifying than just being engrossed in wor…

I agree that most jobs are not creative in the typical definition, which is why in think the distinction between creative and flow state is important.

I think it’s a mistake to focus on happiness because it’s a mind state and by definition transitory. With that said, I think you can cultivate happiness without checking all those boxes because we can affect our mind state by deliberately choosing our perspective. From that stance, almost any job can lead to happiness. I also think those other things you mention are the means to continuing on with a job when it’s not creating happiness. They can create the perspective to develop motivation when happiness is lacking. Maybe “fulfillment” is a better goalpost than “happiness”. “Happy” is the experience in the moment, “fulfillment” is the experience in reflection.

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