Live data from Hacker News

HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

rachelbythebay.com

41–50 of 471 posts

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#41

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

By that argument our government is also a feudal system because there's a king (the president, prime minister, etc.) in charge. Most people would argue that the ability to choose the "king" and replace the "king" provides a key distinction. Likewise with an employer you can change your employer which provides a key distinction from a feudal system.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#42
HR is not your friend and your company is not your family.

Regardless of intent there are commercial realities that exist within the context of a company that may never be present in a non-work relationship. This has varying degrees of impact on the nature of the relationship itself and may not present itself until you are at your most vulnerable.

I find that a collegial environment with shared goals and responsibilities can be equally rewarding as non-work relationships even if we all have some level of underlying self-interest at heart. Our day-to-day interactions can also be made more pleasant if we are not constantly reminded of the at times competitive, zero-sum, structure of professional engagements.

At a team level your colleagues may be your friends but one shouldn't conflate professional relationships with personal ones.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#43
IT is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Legal is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Janitorial staff is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Sales is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Marketing is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#44
> Performance reviews are a joke because almost nobody knows how to measure anyone else's effectiveness. They are just a continuation of the same popularity contests you thought you left behind from...high school

Bowling For Soup (I'm that old) has a song called High School Never Ends. I guess it also applies to the corporate world.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#45

Blog is badly written. There are excessive uses of pronoun without proper references to who means whom. Points backing up the idea is shallow. Author looks he wrote the blog while being angry. Everything aside, I do agree with sentiment and would go on to say the nature of HR depend on the company. As it was alluded to later in the company. In my previous company, HR used to tell everything to the manager. Seriously…

two fyi's:

1) author is female.

2) she gets that feedback a lot that she's overly aggressive in her blogging. Mostly she dismisses it as misogyny but here you thought she was a guy... I wonder how she'll respond.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#46
post #29

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Are we talking about work or life? Sure, private companies aren't democracies, but why should they be? Democracies are extremely inefficient. Imagine if Linux or Python projects were run as democracies and not lead by BDFLs? I can't imagine them being nearly as effective because democratic processes to get new features would always be gridlocked. Benevolent dictators are 10x, maybe even 100x more efficient than democ…

Linux and Python are both projects where people can vote with their feet, though. The projects themselves are not a democracy, but they're certainly not the same sort of ballgame as employment. If I decide my management chain is doing the wrong thing, there's a huge personal cost to finding another job, and little guarantee it will be better. If I decide Linux is doing the wrong thing, I can just stop using it or contributing to it.

That is - the fact that Linux and Python have BDFLs is not the reason for their success. The fact that they have effective BDFLs who make sound decisions that actually work is the reason for their success. And the BDFLs only have power insofar as the community still believes in them - Guido stepped down and Linus has faced significant opposition.

BDFLs and traditional corporate governance are quite efficient, yes. But democracy doesn't aim to be efficient; it promises to be pointed in the right direction. There's no sense in going at 100x speed in the wrong direction. Democracy isn't the only way to get there - if you have tangible data about leadership and where they're pointed and how they make decisions, and the cost of switching is fairly low (so that you can keep pressure on leadership), that works too.

When was the last time you had any data about how effective your management chain would be when you started your job?

(I'm happy in my current job because I asked hard questions about management at each place I interviewed, and I found one where my own management chain seemed to have good people - but even so, only one person in my management chain is still the same as when I interviewed, so I still took a gamble, and I had far less data on any of them from a bit over a day of interviews than anyone has on Linus or Guido.)

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about work or life? Sure, private companies aren't democracies, but why should they be? Democracies are extremely inefficient. Imagine if Linux or Python projects were run as democracies and not lead by BDFLs? I can't imagine them being nearly as effective because democratic processes to get new features would always be gridlocked. Benevolent dictators are 10x, maybe even 100x more efficient than democ…

> Outside of work I certainly live in a free society. I can walk up to a rich person ("a lord") and insult him to his face and nothing will happen. If you really think that’s true, do it on camera. Upload it to YouTube. Let it go viral. See something happens.

Like this you mean? https://youtu.be/FF-tKLISfPE

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#48
I dunno. A group of your senior staff engineers can probably do a pretty damn good evaluation of everybody's engineering performance--thank you very much.

You're not as special a snowflake as you think, and, yes, the senior engineering staff probably are paying attention.

The issue will likely be that the engineering ranking won't match the political rankings and will sometimes diverge wildly.

THAT is a separate problem.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#49
post #45

Blog is badly written. There are excessive uses of pronoun without proper references to who means whom. Points backing up the idea is shallow. Author looks he wrote the blog while being angry. Everything aside, I do agree with sentiment and would go on to say the nature of HR depend on the company. As it was alluded to later in the company. In my previous company, HR used to tell everything to the manager. Seriously…

two fyi's: 1) author is female. 2) she gets that feedback a lot that she's overly aggressive in her blogging. Mostly she dismisses it as misogyny but here you thought she was a guy... I wonder how she'll respond.

>Mostly she dismisses it as misogyny

Starting not to be surprised she has such a bone to pick with HR

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#50

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Unlike the serf, I can go find another Lord. I can pit the lords against each other for a better deal. I can try and become my own lord. HR has a lot fewer tools than the inquisition. Fear of lawsuits reduces their toolkit even further.

This is highly dependent upon your field. You have never been unlucky enough to be trained in a field that then died out.
Post reply on HN