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Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

heartrhythmjournal.com

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#41
post #31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Editorialized is if the title express the posters opinion. It does not. If anything it makes it more clear.

No idea why he is downvoted. He is factually correct as can be seen in merriam-webster and the cambridge dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/editorialize https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/editoria... As the title is just more informative, but not expressing an opinion, calling it editorialized is wrong. And as a matter of fact, because of this comment I just learned a new word and…

> As the title is just more informative, but not expressing an opinion

What is more informative or less informative (e.g. "phones containing magnets" vs "iPhone 12") could be an opinion itself. The "iPhone 12" title definitely stands out more; at the same time it puts a slightly different focus on the article. I think people here prefer to trust the author and their judgment (as long as the original title isn't open clickbait).

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#42

I have a pacemaker. Rule from the start: keep cell phones 6” away from it, minimum, always. Radio interference at very close range is a potential problem. This article, while interesting and a reminder, just continues the rule. Tangent: a few years back I got an electric car. After delivery, I read the manual - every other page had warnings for patients with implanted electronic devices. Doc & I were intrigued, discu…

Maybe the magnets come out when it crashes.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#43
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people put their phone in their "upper pockets"? Or even have "upper pockets"?

Many men? If you are wearing a suit, a smartphone makes the trouser pockets bulge a lot, so it's common to keep it in your shirt pocket or jacket inside pocket - Both of which is next to your heart.

Perhaps it is time for the codpiece to make a comeback in male business attire, updated for modern times to include a phone pouch.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#44
post #32
post #6

> Once the iPhone was brought close to the ICD over the left chest area, immediate suspension of ICD therapies was noted which persisted for the duration of the test. Yeah so if you have a pace maker, try not to put magnets near your heart. The main practical impact for smart phone users with pacemakers seems to be that you shouldn’t carry a phone with a magnet mount in your breast pocket. The article also mentions W…

Anything with strong magnets has a warning about not to use near a pacemaker. Does iPhone 12 come with such a warning?

Yes.

https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1964/en_US/iph...

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#45
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't tend to hug their hobs though...

How many people put their phone in their "upper pockets"? Or even have "upper pockets"?

You mean like in an inside jacket pocket in parts of the world where it actually gets cold? A lot.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#46
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just a minimally invasive off switch. Yup. A safety mechanism that has to be low tech. And user training to avoid magnets is safer than a more complicated interface. The reason this is news is that not all cellphones are magnets, nor is there any obvious indication which are magnets.

IME all recent cell phones contain fairly strong magnets in their speakers. They tend to clog up with iron filings/dust in my workshop.

Speaker magnets tend to be strong but small, meaning they would have to be very close. Thanks s is for attaching a charger, so is likely a much larger magnet, so more likely to be an issue.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#47
post #26

Seems like a failure in pacemaker design? The pacemaker kill switch should simply need much stronger magnets so there is no confusion between mobile phone or the kill switch key.

The point is that it is fairly easy to trigger. This is considered safer than having a hard to trigger mechanism and less user caution, because of greater chance of it failing to be triggered when needed. You could have some sort of complex signal sent that switches them, but it'd make the devices much more complex, and since they are very hard to service, and need to respond when triggered, they are designed to be simple. Users of these devices aren't supposed to have phones near them anyway.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#48
post #43
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many men? If you are wearing a suit, a smartphone makes the trouser pockets bulge a lot, so it's common to keep it in your shirt pocket or jacket inside pocket - Both of which is next to your heart.

Perhaps it is time for the codpiece to make a comeback in male business attire, updated for modern times to include a phone pouch.

The CodCo JunkKeeper™ Tactical Codpiece features heavy duty military-grade nylon webbing, patented SafeSack™ zipper technology, hammer loop, tape measure holster, and copper mesh Faraday-caged phone pocket to keep your swimmers largely unmutated!

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#49
post #2

It's worth noting that almost anything with a magnetic field can interfere with a pacemaker, for instance induction hobs. Given the pervasiveness of, well, magnets (!), it's probably worth investing in pacemaker research which takes this into account ...

It isn't hard to make them triggered a different way, it is that it is hard to make them reliable enough and triggered a different way. They are designed to be triggered this way because it makes them simple. They are hard to service (requires surgery) and need to be triggered reliably when they are bring triggered. To achieve this, they are made as simply as possible, so have a simple trigger mechanism. Users of them are then told that they have to avoid this situation, by being very careful. One of the instructions anyway is to not keep a phone near them, because of concerns about RF interference. It isn't a case of making another way to trigger pace-makers, it is a case of making a way that is extremely unlikely to fail to work and will remain like that for decades, and where equipment to do it is very cheap. It will then take decades for there not to be people with these devices walking around. If they are changed to work a different way, you also need to equip hospitals around the world with a way to trigger them. Basically, it is really impractical, and it is not as much of a problem as you might think because users should already be hyper aware of the danger of this. Anything you do to change it has a huge risk of killing them because of failing to work if it turns out to be even a tiny bit less reliable after the devices have been inside people for years.

Another example of a device that would be a problem like this is my watch. Jewelry that would have similar problems is also common. Things which would be a problem if put close enough are everywhere, but this is always going to be an issue with something like this that is designed to be triggered easily and extremely reliably, and the decision has previously been taken to educate the tiny number of users of them about it rather than go through the unimaginable logistical effort of changing them now (obviously it was much easier when they were new and rare).

Edit: removed paragraph about making a warning device that I don't think is worth including here.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#50

I have a pacemaker. Rule from the start: keep cell phones 6” away from it, minimum, always. Radio interference at very close range is a potential problem. This article, while interesting and a reminder, just continues the rule. Tangent: a few years back I got an electric car. After delivery, I read the manual - every other page had warnings for patients with implanted electronic devices. Doc & I were intrigued, discu…

The traction motors will be brushless, and thus have large permanent magnets in the rotors. I can't imagine there would be significant fields from those magnets in the cabin, but getting a pacemaker or ICD very close to the motors themselves might well pose a risk, and the manual's warnings are likely present partly for that reason and partly out of fear of liability.
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