Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#41

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

btbuildem wrote: post #30

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Twitter didn't shut down an elected president's account (@potus), they permanently banned this particular individual's personal account. But yeah, unchecked corporate power coming home to roost. Personally I believe Nazis should be gagged not given megaphones, but this can affect anyone. Personally, I think Twitter et al. are acting on advice of counsel, not wanting to be considered an ac…

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Twitter didn't shut down an elected president's account (@potus)

That's wrong. They shutdown the ability to post on @potus and deleted tweets[0].

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-twitte...

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#42

Post by V-2 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

Arnt wrote: post #36

user-the-name wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies. It's the second paragraph of the article.

The US law laws for free speech, and it has societal norms, too. What norms people expect to apply in the fora they use, most prominently Facebook. So they haven't updated their laws to match the current society's norms, and the result is that Facebook has to write rules for something approximating all of society. That cannot be simple for Facebook, and I think it's a bit cowardly of the two big parties that neither…

Is "current perception" really common, or just what the loudest voices demand?

And even if it is common, in my opinion the very idea of free speech is that it may go beyond the commonly held notions of acceptability. It seems kind of pointless otherwise - what's widely accepted already shouldn't really need much protection.

Eg. penalization of blasphemy in theocratic societies surely passes the test of "freedom of speech" if you define it that way.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#43

Post by Goronmon » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

throwaway3699 wrote: post #24

goto11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would sensible reforms looks like in your opinion?

People should have legal rights to contest bans of any kind, plus some controls to make sure you don't lose your private data (e.g. emails, chats) attached to your account when banned. We don't want to make it expensive to moderate, but false positives should not go unresolved. This tips the balance a bit more in favour of consumers.

People should have legal rights to contest bans of any kind...

Without regulations on "allowed" reasons for bans, or some standard of proof, then a company can just respond to the contest with "Because we wanted to." and then what?

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#44

Post by osgovernment » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #23

refurb wrote: post #14

Hilarious that Europe, who takes a much more measured approach to free speech has concerns with big tech’s censorship. When Europe starts to worry about free speech that says something as to how far America has fallen.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies. This is about who gets to make the decisions, not what the decisions are.

I'd be much more worried about governments telling me what I can/can't say, rather than private companies not letting me use their platforms to say it.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#45

Post by tormeh » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

>But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet

So does the US. Try "I'm going to kill the US president" (maybe with a bit more specifics) and see how long you remain free. The US may have a bit freer speech than is normal, but there's no absolute free speech

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#46

Post by eplanit » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #34

Someone1234 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> try to find an actual source of President Trump calling for violence on Twitter. Don't believe everything you read. On 9:53 PM, 28 May 2020 he said: > ....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting start…

Clearly, the comment meant baseless violence. Violence to protect the helpless from violence is acceptable.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#47

Post by refurb » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

davewritescode wrote: post #29

refurb wrote: post #14

Hilarious that Europe, who takes a much more measured approach to free speech has concerns with big tech’s censorship. When Europe starts to worry about free speech that says something as to how far America has fallen.

What's Twitter supposed to do? There's likely real legal liability here. Trump has said whatever he wanted on Twitter, true or not, for the better part of a decade. When that speech translated into violence that killed at least 6 including a police officer, what's a company supposed to do? Also, Free speech protections don't apply to private platforms. Only a government run equivalent of Twitter would be.

Twitter has zero liability except their profits and an anti-trust investigation which I’m sure the new president will be a lot less likely to pursue at this point.

And did you just call out 6 deaths which include a guy who tased himself, a cop who died of a random stroke and a woman shot in the throat for being there? Come on.

And yes, the 1st amendment restricts the govt but it’s hypocritical as hell for a company to espouse it’s commitment to free speech all the while censoring undesirable opinions.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#48

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #34

Someone1234 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> try to find an actual source of President Trump calling for violence on Twitter. Don't believe everything you read. On 9:53 PM, 28 May 2020 he said: > ....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting start…

Clearly, the comment meant baseless violence. Violence to protect the helpless from violence is acceptable.

They asked for an example of Trump "calling for violence" on Twitter, which I provided. Your response: That's calling for violence but the GOOD kind.

It isn't up to Twitter to decide if an individual's brand of violence calling is the good or bad kind, it violates their policies.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#49

Post by newbie578 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies.

Fair point, I would rather have Merkel decide what can be said than Jack Dorsey. At least Merkel was democratically elected, while Jack is... I would rather not say it, but I do recommend to people to read the book "Hatching Twitter"..

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#50

Post by tjansen » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

Yes, Germany has laws against some speech. But, even though I am no lawyer, the last tweets I see on thetrumparchive.com should be legal here. The only one I am not sure about is "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd" (insults can be illegal in Germany).