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St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

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Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#41

Interesting to see this on the front page! I spent a year in a monetary mostly cloistered. While I'm glad now for the life I ultimately chose of having a family, I often draw from the experience, especially the discernment process (the Ignatius Exercises) and the meditation/contemplation practice.

Say on; first hand experience in this is rare. What did you discover you missed most on returning to "the real world"? was a year enough time?

Ironically I missed the structure that came from the vow of obedience that felt at times like I gave up all my individual freedom. I learned this gave me focus on the thing at hand, whether it was praying, meditating, cooking or cleaning. I still miss the sheer simplicity of that life.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always liked Catholic writer G.K. Chesterton's take: “Drink because you are happy, but never because you are miserable. Never drink when you are wretched without it, or you will be like the grey-faced gin-drinker in the slum; but drink when you would be happy without it, and you will be like the laughing peasant of Italy. Never drink because you need it, for this is rational drinking, and the way to death and he…

Is this a good general rule for all drugs? Do them for happiness and only while happy; never when sad or for escape?

Maybe a good basis for differentiating “drugs” vs “medicine”?

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say on; first hand experience in this is rare. What did you discover you missed most on returning to "the real world"? was a year enough time?

Ironically I missed the structure that came from the vow of obedience that felt at times like I gave up all my individual freedom. I learned this gave me focus on the thing at hand, whether it was praying, meditating, cooking or cleaning. I still miss the sheer simplicity of that life.

Amazing how form and freedom aren't antithetical, but are actually part and parcel of true liberty.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it depended on geography and time period, but I've read that it wasn't always possible to drink water due to cholera. There may have been a necessity of mixing in at least some wine with the water, to disinfect it. Some have gone so far as to suggest that the arrival of tea from China, which required boiling the water, resulted in a bit of an intellectual boost in Europe. There were many monasteries where be…

Alcohol concentration would not be enough to kill cholera... Especially diluted. Strongest wines are usually in the 15-17% alcohol...

You have to boil the water which does in order to make beer and wine (and spirits).

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#45

I can't see anything about celibacy

This is an apt comment. I went to a Benedictine College with a Monastery attached. More than one of the monks, after a night of heavy drinking, would tell me: "We take a vow of celibacy (non-marriage), not of chastity."

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#46
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a good general rule for all drugs? Do them for happiness and only while happy; never when sad or for escape?

Maybe a good basis for differentiating “drugs” vs “medicine”?

> Maybe a good basis for differentiating “drugs” vs “medicine”?

Perhaps, although I don't think in the way I'd take your statement. Chesterton was quite opposed to the idea that drinking would be medicinal (although maybe he would have allowed that happiness is good medicine?). From the context[1]:

> A new morality has burst upon us with some violence in connection with the problem of strong drink; and enthusiasts in the matter range from the man who is violently thrown out at 12.30, to the lady who smashes American bars with an axe. In these discussions it is almost always felt that one very wise and moderate position is to say that wine or such stuff should only be drunk as a medicine. With this I should venture to disagree with a peculiar ferocity. The one genuinely dangerous and immoral way of drinking wine is to drink it as a medicine. And for this reason, If a man drinks wine in order to obtain pleasure, he is trying to obtain something exceptional, something he does not expect every hour of the day, something which, unless he is a little insane, he will not try to get every hour of the day. But if a man drinks wine in order to obtain health, he is trying to get something natural; something, that is, that he ought not to be without; something that he may find it difficult to reconcile himself to being without. The man may not be seduced who has seen the ecstasy of being ecstatic; it is more dazzling to catch a glimpse of the ecstasy of being ordinary. If there were a magic ointment, and we took it to a strong man, and said, "This will enable you to jump off the Monument," doubtless he would jump off the Monument, but he would not jump off the Monument all day long to the delight of the City. But if we took it to a blind man, saying, "This will enable you to see," he would be under a heavier temptation. It would be hard for him not to rub it on his eyes whenever he heard the hoof of a noble horse or the birds singing at daybreak. It is easy to deny one's self festivity; it is difficult to deny one's self normality. Hence comes the fact which every doctor knows, that it is often perilous to give alcohol to the sick even when they need it. I need hardly say that I do not mean that I think the giving of alcohol to the sick for stimulus is necessarily unjustifiable. But I do mean that giving it to the healthy for fun is the proper use of it, and a great deal more consistent with health.

[1] https://www.gutenberg.org/files/470/470-h/470-h.htm (search for "Omar and the Sacred Vine" -- chapter 7).

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#47
post #31

> For he is believed to hold the place of Christ in the monastery, being called by a name of His, which is taken from the words of the Apostle: “You have received a Spirit of adoption as sons, by virtue of which we cry, ‘Abba—Father!’” In light of Matthew 23:9 [0], this practice concerns me. [0] - “Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven”

No longer Catholic, but Matthew 23 has to be interpreted in context since Christ also says to call no one a teacher but we don't freak about that at all.

Also, St. Paul says you don't have many Fathers in the faith but he is one.

So in combination it means that no one on Earth replaces God as Father and Lord of all. Pope, Patriarch, Bishop, Priest whoever, insofar as they submit to God, submit to them. Otherwise resist and refute them.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#48

I can't see anything about celibacy

This is an apt comment. I went to a Benedictine College with a Monastery attached. More than one of the monks, after a night of heavy drinking, would tell me: "We take a vow of celibacy (non-marriage), not of chastity."

Well, chaste is already something every Catholic is bound to be. I assume they aren't taking vows not to murder or not to steal or to not lie, because those things are already forbidden. The vows are for things that raise the bar.

Re: St. Benedict’s Rule for Monasteries (516)

#49

Interesting to see this on the front page! I spent a year in a monetary mostly cloistered. While I'm glad now for the life I ultimately chose of having a family, I often draw from the experience, especially the discernment process (the Ignatius Exercises) and the meditation/contemplation practice.

I spent some time discerning as a Trappist, and now have a family. I’ve found the lack of silence to be the biggest challenge. How is your prayer life as a parent?

Trappists make great beer right? It is strong beer and gets your head messed up. I've often wondered how such good religious folks would become producers of alcoholic drinks. I assume they didn't drink themselves, doesn't go well with meditation I assume. So are they more like thinking "Let the sinners drink this since they want, and it will pay for the rent of our meditation chambers?"
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