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CTO day 2: downsizing the team

danlebrero.com

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Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#41

Post by ionwake »

So if I get this right.

An organisation told an engineer to fire someone.

He built some software that told him to fire himself.

He then fired someone else based on Role & Salary parameters.

Then gives advice on treating people like adults when firing them.

Does anyone else find this whole thing macabre and absurd?

( I'm not being negative - Im not against the great / funny article and an attempt at a novel approach, the whole thing just seemed completely unethical dystopian and useless - highlighting what a hard problem this is to solve - I would do no better - infact I would have been the problem - I think I just wouldn't fire anyone ).

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#44

Post by plif »

kettro wrote: post #8

One big point that would be useful is to help the fired engineer find another job. A lot of this is, as Aqua mentioned, an exercise for their conscience. The best way to alleviate it is to "do right" by the fired engineer and help them find another position. Likely would have been about as much work as this whole spiel. Of course, OP has no requirement to do anything for them, but the easiest way to make yourself fee…

> A lot of this is, as Aqua mentioned, an exercise for their conscience.

Just as important to build (some...) trust and preserve culture among remaining employees.

Imagine this from the lens of remaining employees: A) The new big boss wrote an algorithm to fire our friends B) The new big boss had to make a tough decision to fire our friends but went out of his way to do right by them

Which one sounds better? I think the algorithm was a good idea to explore possibilities, but I'm not sure about the subsequent blog post.

There are recent examples of these layoffs among tech companies who had to make a pivot due to Covid and took approach B. Ritual is the one that immediately comes to mind for me.

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#45

Post by Jabbles »

ionwake wrote: post #41

So if I get this right. An organisation told an engineer to fire someone. He built some software that told him to fire himself. He then fired someone else based on Role & Salary parameters. Then gives advice on treating people like adults when firing them. Does anyone else find this whole thing macabre and absurd? ( I'm not being negative - Im not against the great / funny article and an attempt at a novel approach,…

> He then fired someone else based on Role & Salary parameters.

No, these were parameters to the software he wrote.

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#46

Post by JackFr »

> In a couple of days follow up with another more informal meeting. The news would have sunk, and the conversation would be more forward-thinking and productive.

That makes no sense to me. If I’m laid off, what could we possibly have to discuss? I’m sure HR would have all practical severance, benefits, legal information. What else are we gonna talk about?

I’ve been through a round of layoffs at a bank, and seen many more. Once you go down to HR you never go back to your desk. I’ve been on both sides of that, and honestly it seems the most sensible way to do things.

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#47

Post by ionwake »

emerongi wrote: post #25
Sholmesy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot boil down humans to 5-6 attribute points. What about personalities/coordination/how people actually interact. Product A might be filled with people who are use to taking charge, and Product B might be filled with people who are more reserved about their opinions. This is a dreadful way to solve this problem. If it were that easy, his job as CTO wouldn't exist and we could simply plug it into a SaaS AI that…

And yet we hire based on people's achievements and previous success. And the world keeps on turning. It's very hard to build the perfect team from the get-go. However, you can probably build a pretty good team over time. In my opinion, it's better to make an average decision than no decision at all; you can improve from average to something better as you go along.

Yes but what tends to happen is - the risk is - youll probably just end up with a stable team, but not a good team. The best will have left or been pushed out. The ones that stay, desperate enough to be unethical to keep their positions, to lie to cover their asses. A barely functioning but stable entity floating in space not producing anything of value until the company slowly withers and disappears.

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#48

Post by _vertigo »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #37
SMFloris wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty interesting how this conversation goes. CTO: I can't do that on my 2nd day. CEO: I thought your interests align with the company. It is your job to align everyone under you to our direction. CTO: Yes, of course. Right away.

> CTO: Yes, of course. Right away. If it's the best reply they can come up with, they're not competent enough for the position.

What’s a better reply?

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#49

Post by snickms »

vntok wrote: post #42
narcissismo wrote: post #11

From the numbers, it sounds like you could have saved 10% by firing yourself.

In what world would leaving an already weakened company without a CTO be a desirable outcome?

If he has not communicated his vision clearly enough for the company to survive without him, then he has failed. That world.

[Edited] - as I thought you were asking a slightly different question. My bad.

Re: CTO day 2: downsizing the team

#50

Post by ionwake »

Jabbles wrote: post #45
ionwake wrote: post #41

So if I get this right. An organisation told an engineer to fire someone. He built some software that told him to fire himself. He then fired someone else based on Role & Salary parameters. Then gives advice on treating people like adults when firing them. Does anyone else find this whole thing macabre and absurd? ( I'm not being negative - Im not against the great / funny article and an attempt at a novel approach,…

> He then fired someone else based on Role & Salary parameters. No, these were parameters to the software he wrote.

Yep I wasn't saying it wasn't.
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