Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 179 posts

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#41

Post by DangerousPie »

fpgaminer wrote: post #18
Sparkyte wrote: post #11

Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. There is no replacement for detective work and the government shouldn't be lazy to exclude it. The best it can do is narrow down suspects.

That's been my feeling. Last I looked I recall public SOTA in facial recognition being something like an error every 1 in 1000 cases. Assuming that a private corporation's efforts are somehow 100x better that still gives you 3,000 suspects in America for any given photo. (And all those people are likely to look very, very similar.) Hell, Apple's FaceID makes a mistake every million faces, and that system is both prof…

Why is that a problem? This is just the first step to generate a set of possible matches, there will always be further steps to narrow it down further.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#42

Post by agora_rising »

trianglem wrote: post #32
rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

Yeah facial recognition is just bad. We have pictures and a populace ready and willing to root these terrorists out as we’ve seen so far.

Using the T-word as you have is only going to make things worse.

You can be disgusted at what happened. But breaking out that word is an escalation.

Language like this will let a genie out of a bottle that cannot be put back in. And you probably aren't the sort of person who would like the outcome.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#44

Post by dragonwriter »

eplanit wrote: post #23
mmmBacon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

True, but what's frightening now is that the mob/SJWs are aligned (mostly) with the new administration, whose party has swept up all power in the government.

> whose party has swept up all power in the government.

Did most of the federal judiciary die or resign? Was the Constitution amended to remove supermajority to requirements for certain actions?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#45

Post by heyoni »

jackson1442 wrote: post #24
Youden wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. Why is that a problem? Are there any investigative tools that are perfect or is there a reason why facial recognition should be held to a higher standard? > It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. You need to be more specific. Why is it no better? Has facial recognition been demonstrated to lead to more unjust arrests than…

The problems come from when it is hailed as perfect and arrests are made solely on a facial recognition result[0]. Facial recognition has also time and time again proven to be racially biased[1][2]. Not to mention how easy it is to create a surveillance state with facial recognition[3]. [0] https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognit... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study…

I seriously doubt anyone is being convicted based on that alone. Look, once you suspect someone was at the riot, you can then start to look for other things like, license plates coming in and out of DC, or beacon data or phone tower records. Some of these people were shouting their names out to cameras along with the city they were from.

Facial recognition is like watching footage from a bank robbery, and then recognizing the person in it, except a computer does the initial work and a human being verified it before making any moves. I’d be worried if high def cameras were on every corner but this footage was taken at the scene of a crime, by reporters and criminals alike. So what if a private group runs it through a filter?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#46

Post by not_knuth »

fat_pikachu wrote: post #14
wilburCamel00 wrote: post #7

I have a hard time taking the so-called “right” seriously about free and fair elections after 8 years of obstructing Obama. Effectively marginalizing the other side with their media platforms, and political agents in the form of rich Republicans, only to suddenly screech about the same happening to them? Indeed, as a political party, Republicans have undermined both sides voters. I have yet to see factories growing o…

> I have a hard time taking the so-called “right” seriously about free and fair elections after 8 years of obstructing Obama. Obstruction wasn't invented with Obama. Obama himself participated in obstruction and filibusters as a member of the Senate during George Bush's presidency.

Whataboutism doesn't add any value to a discussion. GP did not exclude what you have commented in their comment.

But I don't want to make this comment purely about criticizing someone.

There is a figure on Wikipedia [1] that shows that Filibusters have been rising starkly since the 70s – since politicians started realising how effective they could be under the new rules.

My conclusion of this is twofold: 1. The use of a filibuster is an extreme measure and shows how divisive US politics has gotten – hence the more numerous reach for drastic measures. 2. It is an inevitable devil's spiral with two parties that don't trust each other. Every use of a Filibuster by a Republican will give a Democrat a justification for one and vice versa (this is why Whataboutism should be avoided).

So please let's not make this about "But the Democrats started it" or "But the Republicans did more".

Instead, judge me on my hypothesis: "The increase in use of the filibuster is an indicator of polarization and shows that polarization has been on the rise since the 70s."

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#47

Post by fapjacks »

fpgaminer wrote: post #22
mmmBacon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

Comparing cancel culture to China's social credit system is ... not a great choice, in my opinion. Regardless, I've had this theory about cancel culture. I don't necessarily agree with cancel culture, for the aforementioned problem of it being mob social justice. But it seems to me like it has arisen out of a failure by the real justice system. Issues like sexism in particular, which affect half of the population, ha…

Cancel culture exists because it is 100% cost-free to shitpost on Twitter when people feel like their petty political issues with some person or company are in conflict with their own personal value judgments. But this isn't an issue with the courts at all.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#48

Post by jackson1442 »

DangerousPie wrote: post #39
jackson1442 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems come from when it is hailed as perfect and arrests are made solely on a facial recognition result[0]. Facial recognition has also time and time again proven to be racially biased[1][2]. Not to mention how easy it is to create a surveillance state with facial recognition[3]. [0] https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognit... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study…

Nobody is suggesting arresting anyone solely based on facial recognition.

Nobody suggested it, but it's still happened. Here's a better link than what I posted above: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/technology/facial-recogni...

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#49

Post by trianglem »

agora_rising wrote: post #42
trianglem wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah facial recognition is just bad. We have pictures and a populace ready and willing to root these terrorists out as we’ve seen so far.

Using the T-word as you have is only going to make things worse. You can be disgusted at what happened. But breaking out that word is an escalation. Language like this will let a genie out of a bottle that cannot be put back in. And you probably aren't the sort of person who would like the outcome.

Things have to get worse before they get better. What other word besides terrorist are you going to use to describe a group of people that break into the capitol, kill police officers and set pipe bombs? It’s quite literally the definition of a terrorist.

Also is that a threat of violence at the end there from a 15 minute old account?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#50

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

eplanit wrote: post #23
mmmBacon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

True, but what's frightening now is that the mob/SJWs are aligned (mostly) with the new administration, whose party has swept up all power in the government.

I'm not sure how one would come to that conclusion. Biden is regarded as a centrist, e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/us/politics/biden-cabinet... or https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-08-12/harris-bid... , so there's no love lost between his administration and the progressives. They might get a few things they want but Biden and the mainstream Democrats are probably going to keep their distance for the most part.
Post reply on HN