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Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

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Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#41

Post by mrandish »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8
mrfusion wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably be any SSRI though?

No, it's strictly Fluvoxamine as far as we know. SSRIs aren't all interchangeable, especially when it comes to side effects. Fluvoxamine is very different than other SSRIs because it has significant effects at the sigma-1 receptor. The only other SSRI with significant sigma-1 activity is Sertraline, but it has the opposite effect at sigma-1. However, it's possible that the anti-COVID properties are unrelated to Fluvo…

The similarly named Fluoxetine has lesser (but still significant) effects at Sigma-1. Since Fluoxetine is so widely distributed (because it's Prozac), there is quite a bit of observational data that Fluoxetine is also correlated with reduced clinical severity. Obviously, even a strong correlation is not causation but it is certainly grounds for prioritizing investigation, especially since Fluoxetine/Prozac is very well-tolerated, inexpensive and widely available in mass quantity.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#42

Post by hannob »

LatteLazy wrote: post #39

Tiny study, just like chloroquine that is somehow still being talked about... >Findings In this randomized trial that included 152 adult outpatients with confirmed COVID-19 and symptom onset within 7 days, clinical deterioration occurred in 0 patients treated with fluvoxamine vs 6 (8.3%) patients treated with placebo over 15 days, a difference that was statistically significant. It honestly worries me how quick peopl…

As unfortunate as this is, 152 isn't such a small study compared to what's common.

Not saying this is a result that should be taken as definite, but it's strong enough to warrant further looking into this (which was never really true for hydroxychloroquine).

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#43

Post by lldbg »

LatteLazy wrote: post #39

Tiny study, just like chloroquine that is somehow still being talked about... >Findings In this randomized trial that included 152 adult outpatients with confirmed COVID-19 and symptom onset within 7 days, clinical deterioration occurred in 0 patients treated with fluvoxamine vs 6 (8.3%) patients treated with placebo over 15 days, a difference that was statistically significant. It honestly worries me how quick peopl…

The efficacy of the vaccines currently being administered to millions were based on decisions made with data from ~200 confirmed cases.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#44

Post by LatteLazy »

lldbg wrote: post #43
LatteLazy wrote: post #39

Tiny study, just like chloroquine that is somehow still being talked about... >Findings In this randomized trial that included 152 adult outpatients with confirmed COVID-19 and symptom onset within 7 days, clinical deterioration occurred in 0 patients treated with fluvoxamine vs 6 (8.3%) patients treated with placebo over 15 days, a difference that was statistically significant. It honestly worries me how quick peopl…

The efficacy of the vaccines currently being administered to millions were based on decisions made with data from ~200 confirmed cases.

Pfizers stage 3 vaccine trial have 41,000 participants. I'm not sure how you got 200, have I misunderstood you?

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta....

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#45

Post by lldbg »

LatteLazy wrote: post #44
lldbg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The efficacy of the vaccines currently being administered to millions were based on decisions made with data from ~200 confirmed cases.

Pfizers stage 3 vaccine trial have 41,000 participants. I'm not sure how you got 200, have I misunderstood you? https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... .

Yes, you have. The efficacy estimate was based on roughly ~200 confirmed cases, which your link confirms for the Pfizer vaccine.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#46

Post by mrandish »

This presentation from the Covid-19 Early Treatment Fund (a non-profit funding over a dozen trials) summarizes the data so far on Fluvoxamine. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1u7resy2bGA1_HIgj6Nc7...

Executive Director Steve Kirsch wrote this post on the most promising early treatments and CETF feels Ivermectin and Fluvoximine are the two most promising which they are currently funding studies on. He's continuing to update this post almost daily. As of now, the data is still insufficient to be conclusive (which he highlights) but I appreciate they are sharing these kind of insights from the front lines, at least for those capable of understanding the nature of evolving research and the associated uncertainties. Of particular interest, he links to Washington University's large-population, remote trial of fluvoximine that's free and anyone can apply and participate from home.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-current-treatment-for-Covi...

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#47

Post by mrob »

lambdaba wrote: post #31
mrob wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k IU/day exceeds the Tolerable Upper Intake as determined by the US's National Academy of Medicine, the European Food Safety Authority, and similar organizations. Medical doctor Deva Boone posted a report of toxicity at half that dose: https://www.devaboone.com/post/vitamin-d-part-2-shannon-s-st... This post and related posts about vitamin D were discussed on HN. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=devaboon…

I know, but that's in error: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5541280/#:~:tex... . Doctors correcting vitamin D levels are finding 10k IU is a good starter dose and that is often insufficient to arrive at optimal levels.

Here's another report of toxicity at a similar dose:

https://jeffchen.dev/posts/Vitamin-D-And-Heart-Palpitations/

Dr Boone posted on HN, and claimed that vitamin K2 would not counteract high dose vitamin D:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24262492

I am not aware of any randomized controlled trial of vitamin K2 for protection against vitamin D toxicity.

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#48

Post by PragmaticPulp »

mrandish wrote: post #41
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's strictly Fluvoxamine as far as we know. SSRIs aren't all interchangeable, especially when it comes to side effects. Fluvoxamine is very different than other SSRIs because it has significant effects at the sigma-1 receptor. The only other SSRI with significant sigma-1 activity is Sertraline, but it has the opposite effect at sigma-1. However, it's possible that the anti-COVID properties are unrelated to Fluvo…

The similarly named Fluoxetine has lesser (but still significant) effects at Sigma-1. Since Fluoxetine is so widely distributed (because it's Prozac), there is quite a bit of observational data that Fluoxetine is also correlated with reduced clinical severity. Obviously, even a strong correlation is not causation but it is certainly grounds for prioritizing investigation, especially since Fluoxetine/Prozac is very we…

Fluvoxamine has the highest sigma-1 affinity by far. Fluoxetine's affinity is about an order of magnitude lower.

We don't even know if sigma-1 is responsible for the effects observed, but it wouldn't make sense to give someone Fluoxetine instead of Fluvoxamine (which is also widely available), especially when it would require overdose levels of Fluoxetine to achieve similar sigma-1 effects.

More numbers available in the full text here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24508523/

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#49

Post by Izkata »

colossal wrote: post #19
JoshTko wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vitamin D has been shown to reduce severity in several different studies. Everyone should consider taking it. https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/search?q=vitamin+D&restrict... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN30emwcNS4

It has shown to be correlated with better outcomes. It is also correlated with being healthier, being active, and eating better. As far as I understand there is no strong evidence for a causal relationship. To be clear, if you live in the northern hemisphere, you should be taking vitamin D. It's cheap and at worst harmless. But that's not the same as saying it will improve the outcome of covid patients.

> and at worst harmless.

Half true, you can take too much [0], it's just that it either has to build up over a long time or be from dosages far larger than you can buy without a prescription.

[0] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects

Re: Early clinical trial shows anti-depressant prevents hospitalization from Covid

#50

Post by LatteLazy »

hannob wrote: post #42
LatteLazy wrote: post #39

Tiny study, just like chloroquine that is somehow still being talked about... >Findings In this randomized trial that included 152 adult outpatients with confirmed COVID-19 and symptom onset within 7 days, clinical deterioration occurred in 0 patients treated with fluvoxamine vs 6 (8.3%) patients treated with placebo over 15 days, a difference that was statistically significant. It honestly worries me how quick peopl…

As unfortunate as this is, 152 isn't such a small study compared to what's common. Not saying this is a result that should be taken as definite, but it's strong enough to warrant further looking into this (which was never really true for hydroxychloroquine).

You're correct, only 24 (no placebo group so I guess that's the equivalent of 48?). I thought it was bigger...

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researche...

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