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Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

hongkongwatch.org

41–50 of 179 posts

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with statehood, but you could just as well argue that putting a base there is the best way to _avoid_ a war* between China and Taiwan. Doing so could be a _peaceful_ action. *typo: "way" -> 'war"

You can not put a base in a single day. This will be a process which you can not hide from China. You think they'll just swallow it and will not attack Taiwan at the first hint of event? In my opinion it is not a _peaceful_ action but an act of a lunatic who does not give a shit about human lives.

Of course you can't hide it. And of course it's possible they may decide to attack Taiwan if it were attempted. It's also possible that not doing so _guarantees_ an attack by China. It's all a balance of probabilities. One could very well rationally decide the likelihood of China attacking Taiwan decreases by putting a base there. I'm not saying that conclusion is guaranteed correct, or that you should agree with it, but you should have the intellectual honestly to admit it's possible. Pretending such an act is lunacy is ridiculous.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#42
post #37
post #13

The west needs to sanction China. This is violation of China's treaty obligations, it's not just a domestic issue, it's an international law issue, and it should have international consequences.

A century old treaty signed at gunpoint can be dissolved at gunpoint.

That’s not how international obligations work. Most borders were defined at gunpoint but we generally don’t allow for arbitrary redefinition when the loser gets uppity, Crimea aside.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this going down the path of "we wind up just like them". I see this going down the path of WW III. What we need is another cold war. Any hot war will be unimaginably costly and drawn out.

MAD basically assures no hot war, it will be infrastructural hacks, IP theft, economic warfare, etc. moving forward.

[deleted]

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#45
post #8

This timing is unsurprising; it’s clear there’s nobody at the wheel in the U.S. for a couple of weeks, lowering the odds of reprisal during this window of opportunity. What would shift this? Does the E.U. have sufficient clout?

Someone will "be at the wheel" in a few days. And you will not see China back down. Why? China will soon overtake the United States - and not just by a little - by a lot.

China annexed the Scarborough Shoal 8 years ago. And the guy who will "be at the wheel" soon did nothing back then (despite of there being a defense treaty).

These mass arrests are just China getting ready to annex Hong Kong as soon as "the wheel" is in the hand of the guy they already know will no nothing.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't entirely trust Biden when it comes to this, however, you can't really compare Taiwan to Hong Kong. To take Taiwan, China needs to annex an entirely separate country. They can do that through soft influence (pretty sure everyone agrees that's totally a failure), through economic means (Taiwan has been diversifying it's economy so not sure how great that option is anymore), or militarily. Even if other countrie…

It may be risky for China, but if you actually read Chinese media (or even the halfway house that is the SCMP), you can see to them it's not a question of IF but WHEN... https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/united-states/a...

I know and it's scary. That doesn't mean an attack will actually happen though. And even if it does happen, that doesn't mean it'll succeed.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terms of the treaty state anything about the relative strength of each nation?

I tell you a secret: The CCP doesn't actually care about the rules of international law. Who is gonna stop them? Nobody.

This is the problem restated, yes, and that’s what we’re talking about.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terms of the treaty state anything about the relative strength of each nation?

I tell you a secret: The CCP doesn't actually care about the rules of international law. Who is gonna stop them? Nobody.

Neither does the US or the UK or any other country that actually matters. And btw there is no such thing as international law.

Re: Arrests of Hong Kong democrats shows why EU must reject China investment

#50
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A call to any action is propaganda. OP is calling to resist China’s rise unless they become the world’s leading power while also simultaneously being an opponent of free expression. Many in the world do not support free expression, they have their propaganda. Some in the world support free expression, they have their propaganda. The likely equilibria of human behavior is the former, due to human tendency for wanting…

Yeah. I kind of wish people held your viewpoint more. I actually see a lot of things happening domestically and globally as a regression to the mean of human civilization.

On only a 10000 year arc sure but kind of hoping we buck the inborn tendency at some point. Humans won't make it very long (relatively of course) without that.
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