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GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

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Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#41

Post by enriquto »

claudiawerner wrote: post #30
capableweb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really suggesting that companies should willfully break laws? We already have this in reality I guess, but don't think we should suggest them to do it further. Right way to get change would be for companies to get together and lobby for the change they wanna see, not just break the law. Although I agree the export embargo is fucking stupid, especially when it comes to online technology, I really want to see l…

To the extent that a law is unjust or otherwise morally wrong, it could be said there is a moral responsibility to disobey an unjust law (where one would otherwise be following it in a way which results in the unjust outcome). Note that GP isn't saying that it's permissible to break any law, only immoral ones. It may be countered that the law isn't actually unjust (nor immoral), but a more convincing point is that it…

Thanks for the clarification, that was exactly my point.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#42

Post by numlock86 »

zed88 wrote: post #11

What's the difference between a Chinese company and a US company? None. Both work for the state, although US ones operate under the guise of democracy. This sort of union between tech and politics is not going to take us anywhere.

Nice phrasing. A bit edgy and exaggerated, though.

But since they are the same, I bet you can show us where the USA holds a few (at least 5 digit range) people in abduction camps, just to name one difference. Now that would be interesting.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#43

Post by rathel »

At work I had to take a course on US export control. The restrictions they bully everyone into are pretty nazi. Likewise with SWIFT. As evidenced by TFA it's always regular citizens that suffer. Compare this with EU sanctions that are targeted to particular companies and individuals.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#44

Post by Blikkentrekker »

londons_explore wrote: post #2

Can't really blame GitHub here... US laws are badly written.

GitHub makes far more noise about such laws when it care about them, however.

Another thing it also doesn't care about is the U.S.A. laws that prohibit those under 13 from effectively contributing.

The real issue is that many projects, many of which making sanctimonious statements about inclusivity they clearly caren't a bit about continue to operate through GitHub and other companies under U.S.A. control and remain reliant upon them for contribution.

The last time I assessed the matter, publishing on crates.io seemed to require a GitHub account, though I'm not sure whether this issue has now been fixed; I've certainly seen Rust preach and pat itself on the back how much it cares about not excluding anyone, but apparently Iran isn't so included.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#45

Post by brmgb »

jeroenhd wrote: post #21

If the Iranian employee logged into the Github account, isn't blocking the account exactly what the law says they should do? If all they did was apply a merge request in one of the repos then would reverting the merge and blocking the account would be enough to comply? Is there some alternative way to comply with US export restrictions? The real question here is why people even consider using US cloud companies when…

It's not an Iranian employee. That's just someone visiting Iran and login to their GitHub account.

GitHub reaction is outrageously disproportionate. They should just prevent login from Iran. They had no basis for blocking a legitimate customer in Europe based on this.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#46

Post by ceejayoz »

canofbars wrote: post #40
jeroenhd wrote: post #21

If the Iranian employee logged into the Github account, isn't blocking the account exactly what the law says they should do? If all they did was apply a merge request in one of the repos then would reverting the merge and blocking the account would be enough to comply? Is there some alternative way to comply with US export restrictions? The real question here is why people even consider using US cloud companies when…

Would it not be sufficient to just block requests from Iran rather than shut down the account and the groups they are in? That way when they return home they can still access the site.

Given the legal penalties for violating sanctions and the vigor with which they are pursued, probably not.

Should it be this way? No. Is it entirely Github’s fault they overreact to any sign they’re serving Iranian users? Also no.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#47

Post by eznzt »

enriquto wrote: post #13
capableweb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really suggesting that companies should willfully break laws? We already have this in reality I guess, but don't think we should suggest them to do it further. Right way to get change would be for companies to get together and lobby for the change they wanna see, not just break the law. Although I agree the export embargo is fucking stupid, especially when it comes to online technology, I really want to see l…

> Although I agree the export embargo is fucking stupid, especially when it comes to online technology, I really want to see less criminal behavior from companies, not more. The law is not stupid, it's criminal. By following it, companies are precisely engaging in criminal behavior.

Yeah, that's not how the world works.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#48

Post by capableweb »

yorwba wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem confused why GitHub did what they did. In the US there is something called "US Export Law", the law includes declarations that makes companies unable to sell services/goods to certain countries (which spoiler, Iran is part of that list). The law itself is not illegal, as the lawmakers have created and enacted that law. It's the opposite, the law is declaring what's illegal. So, if GitHub doesn't ban users fr…

"the law includes declarations that makes companies unable to sell services/goods to certain countries" is not the same as "if GitHub doesn't ban users from Iran, they are breaking the law". GitHub could comply with the law without completely banning users who access their service from Iran, e.g. by making their website unavailable for Iranian IPs or by making paid features unavailable.

IANAL and I'm not 100% confident on my knowledge around the export laws in the US, as I've only have to deal with that mess once in my lifetime.

But, if the CEO of GitHub (Nat Friedman) claims that they "do no more than what is required by the law" and end up banning a user, my understanding is that the lawyers are GitHub and Microsoft have made the judgement that banning users are a must, simply restricting them temporary is not enough.

Again, I think export embargoes are shit and don't necessarily agree with the calls that GitHub/Microsoft did, but trying to understand the side they are coming from here.

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#49

Post by MaxBarraclough »

mantap wrote: post #16
Zealotux wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is GitHub supposed to do?

Block requests from Iran, display a message that connections are blocked for legal reasons. Allow account to be used when not in Iran.

Would that comply with US law?

Re: GitHub blocks entire company because one employee was in Iran

#50

Post by frombody »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #15

Github refused to help me regain access to an 11 year old account when I changed jobs so lost access to 2FA and email account at the same time. We lost access to tens of thousands of dollars worth of project code which we had to rewrite. The customer service support was Google style brick wall. I wish this guy luck in getting access.

Using a company email to sign up for services and expecting to have access after you leave the company is 100% entirely your fault.

Even with the positive spin you're trying to put on it, it still sounds like you are trying to steal data from your former employer.

The situation would probably also be easily resolvable with your former employer's help, and there is likely a reason they aren't helping you.

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