Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#41

Post by flagrant » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

protoman3000 wrote: post #4

What are the reasons why we can’t have a very hard 4-week long Chinese style total shutdown?

To put it simply, the UK government is continuing a decade of placing their and their friends' financial interests ahead of the interests of the country. Many own properties that are at risk when nobody's going to work, or are indebted to party donors who do. The idea is to put up with people dying (after all, austerity caused the deaths of over 100,000 people in the UK, and that was apparently acceptable) as long as the economy keeps going. Of course this will fail in the long term, and the result will be a collapsed economy and a lot of dead people, but long term thinking has never been a requirement to be a Conservative government.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#42

Post by xyzzyz » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #15

Everything seems so last minute and ad hoc with this Conservative government. Their announcement of another level 5 lockdown (which hadn't existed until today) and the u-turn on school closures makes it clear they are simply making things up as they go along. The goverment's level of incompetence is simply off the scale. How has this nasty, rotten government gotten away with some much? (No doubt helped by our nasty r…

Blaming it on Conservative government and “nasty” right wing press might make you feel better, but there is no reason to believe you’d get better outcomes if someone else was pulling the strings. Sure, UK government’s response to covid has been stupid, inconsistent and making things up as they went along, but the same is true about government response to covid almost everywhere else.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#43

Post by Daishiman » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

pageandrew wrote: post #32

qeternity wrote: post #11

In the UK, 95% of the deaths are people over 60. There are more deaths for people over 90 than under 70. When are we going to start putting all these efforts and resources into focusing on the vulnerable populations and not painting with a broad brush. We know that lockdowns are too blunt an instrument which is why most of Europe is having to engage in ever more draconian measures. We are mortgaging our future here,…

Lockdowns trade away the life, health, mental health, education, and social development of children and young people for the safety of less than 1% of the population that are either aged or unhealthy as it is, and who can be protected in other ways. And even mentioning this cost, which is becoming quite extreme (look at youth suicidality numbers, and childhood depression rates), causes you to be accused of not caring…

Considering the vast number of excess deaths of old but healthy people and the human cost of the people who continue to show symptoms months after initial infection, I would say your calculations are just wrong.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#44

Post by uncledave » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #11

In the UK, 95% of the deaths are people over 60. There are more deaths for people over 90 than under 70. When are we going to start putting all these efforts and resources into focusing on the vulnerable populations and not painting with a broad brush. We know that lockdowns are too blunt an instrument which is why most of Europe is having to engage in ever more draconian measures. We are mortgaging our future here,…

That’s probably because the moment someone looks at it objectively someone posts a headline along the lines of ”8 year old dies of covid” or ”Tory MP says N is an acceptable death count”. Both are useless headlines as quoted but the entire political system is a shit media popularity contest and literally the only objective is to come out looking less bad than thy neighbour.

So the hard questions are never asked for which we sacrifice a good chunk of our population to dwindling cancer care, mental health issues and economic decline. Those scandals can be written off statistically by the next lot.

And yes I’ve had it. And yes I’ve lost three relatives to it. And quite frankly they were all circling the drain already.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#45

Post by edoceo » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

pageandrew wrote: post #32

qeternity wrote: post #11

In the UK, 95% of the deaths are people over 60. There are more deaths for people over 90 than under 70. When are we going to start putting all these efforts and resources into focusing on the vulnerable populations and not painting with a broad brush. We know that lockdowns are too blunt an instrument which is why most of Europe is having to engage in ever more draconian measures. We are mortgaging our future here,…

Lockdowns trade away the life, health, mental health, education, and social development of children and young people for the safety of less than 1% of the population that are either aged or unhealthy as it is, and who can be protected in other ways. And even mentioning this cost, which is becoming quite extreme (look at youth suicidality numbers, and childhood depression rates), causes you to be accused of not caring…

I think your point is that life and health are being traded is not the case - since these measures are to keep people alive and healthy. I agree there is some cost but let's not get hyperbolic.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#46

Post by rusk » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

f6v wrote: post #22

sonotmyname wrote: post #2

Woohoo - more inconsistent and unscientific policies! * Restaurants can continue to offer delivery for food, but takeaway alcohol will be banned __ So alcohol spreads COVID? Good thing restaurants don't count on alcohol sales to stay afloat. * Amateur team sports are not allowed, but elite sport such as Premier League football can continue __ 'Elite' athletes, as is the case for the rest of the 'elites', should not h…

> So alcohol spreads COVID? This always gets me. Isn’t it obvious that alcohol consumption is a social activity? Not all of it, but to a large degree. Limiting the consumption seems logical. Of course, you can’t assess the impact of individual measures at the moment, as you need a controlled experiment and proper statistics. But is this measure really something to be that upset about?

You can measure it [0]. It has been measured. Contact tracing, where it has been done reliably has shown that a large amount of community transmission takes place at house parties where people have been drinking. You wouldn’t know that in the UK unfortunately because you’re never given any information beyond assurances that grit and determination will get together through.

[0] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overloo...

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#47

Post by jeofken » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

Uncountable seeds of friendship and love never take root, due to meeting people being banned. Untold numbers of ideas and plans never made between entrepreneurs. All due to people with power over government arms or mass media being caught up in a mass hysteria. Governments will print money Weimar-style to fund their debts and liabilities in the 2020s, as they kill commerce and free life.

In my country we were spared from lockdowns or restrictions until recently - and compared to how friends in Germany, Hungary, Denmark, etc live it’s such a relief. Still no more people have died here last year than on average - 90k deaths/year as usual [0] [1]

[0] http://www.scb.se/om-scb/nyheter-och-pressmeddelanden/overdo...

[1] http://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/sverige-i-siffror/mannisko...

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#48

Post by pageandrew » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #27

Hopefully the two vaccines currently being rolled out in the U.S. and Europe will largely eliminate the need for future lockdowns. Once the most vulnerable populations are immune, it's just a matter of weeks or months before herd immunity among the general population is achieved and life can pretty much go back to normal.

Your optimism is appreciated but the situation seems so bleak I cannot believe it could be that easy

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#49

Post by f6v » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #27

Hopefully the two vaccines currently being rolled out in the U.S. and Europe will largely eliminate the need for future lockdowns. Once the most vulnerable populations are immune, it's just a matter of weeks or months before herd immunity among the general population is achieved and life can pretty much go back to normal.

Maybe in a year or so... There was another HN discussion on production capabilities, tldr: distribution and production takes a long time. Until then, there’s no way other than lockdown. I doubt contact tracing is going to get better, at least here in the EU.

Re: Covid: New lockdown for England as cases surge

#50

Post by abridgett » Mon, Jan 04, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #27

Hopefully the two vaccines currently being rolled out in the U.S. and Europe will largely eliminate the need for future lockdowns. Once the most vulnerable populations are immune, it's just a matter of weeks or months before herd immunity among the general population is achieved and life can pretty much go back to normal.

Sadly the timescales are looking more like 1-2 _years_. That's before we get to anti-vaxers and there'll be a lot (there will also be plenty of side-effect cases - due to the sheer number of people being vaccinated at once, not because it's not safe!)