Do not compare EU salaries with the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#41

Post by handelaar » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #32

Whatever your politics, we should endeavor to stop giving oxygen to rhetoric that misstates easily verifiable facts: > I don't wanna make 250k while most people work three jobs About 5% of people work more than one job in the US: https://www.qualityinfo.org/-/it-takes-two-or-more-oregon-s-... In Germany, where the author is based, that figure is 3.5 million of a labor force of 45 million--over 7% https://www.dw.com/e…

Whatever your politics, we should endeavor to stop giving oxygen to rhetoric that misstates easily verifiable facts

* Your comparison between Portugal's social security system and the US's includes only one source of support, but several are available. (Cost of housing is one.) Neglecting this easily-verifiable fact has the same misinformational outcome as lying.

* "Medicaid has extremely low out-of-pocket costs" is not a reply to "we didn't pay a fucking cent". Your (not-included) estimates of how much money a US resident definitely will have to pay is by definition never going to be as good as zero. It's almost like you're setting out to smooth over this also-easily-verifiable fact with "rhetoric".

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#42

Post by uxp100 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

This feels like a faux-woke way to justify workers being paid less. The subtext here is that European workers can't be paid more because of overhead of various public services, and I don't think that's true. If there were a few big European companies closely located that were hiring as much as SV tech hired, I think wages would go up. Not matching US salaries, but some.

I really don't know anything, but I guess Germany where I would expect that to happen. If some self driving car related company funded by idk, BMW or Siemens or someone tried to scale up really fast. The other day people were mocking the EUs program to encourage European semiconductor tech, but I think Neural Network accelerator chips are still a niche that new companies could develop in.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#43

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#44

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #6

AntiImperialis4 wrote: post #2

DO compare it and see how much one can end up saving in a given time in the US, even after paying for healthcare, education etc.

You'll get ruined in US if you get cancer in your close family despite 'paying for healthcare' all your life. In my uncharitable opinion US is good for earning money as a young, highly educated person and for nothing else. So go there when you are around 25, work your ass off at whoever pays the most for your skillset, spend as little as possible and bail before 35. Later you're screwed. You'll still make more and mo…

https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/cancer-patients-pai...

> In a case study, a patient with lymphoma paid out-of-pocket healthcare costs from $6,446 in a large employer-sponsored health plan to $12,931 in a health plan on the individual health insurance market. These were all Affordable Care Act (ACA)-compliant plans.

Total out of pocket costs for cancer were $5.6 billion in 2018, with 1.8 million cases. That's about $3,100 out of pocket per diagnosis on average.

Over a career, you'll pay way more in additional taxes in Europe than whatever you'll save in out of pocket costs in the U.S. if you get cancer.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#45

Post by waihtis » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

In this context, it would also be fair to note that Portugal gets much more than it gives into the EU: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#46

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

jason0597 wrote: post #26

marcinzm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You'll get ruined in US if you get cancer in your close family despite 'paying for healthcare' all your life. Not really if you have insurance which as a software engineer you would have. Might hit your $10k out of pocket maximum but you salary will easily cover that. edit: When my dad got cancer his insurance actually PAID him a cash payout for every treatment on top of paying the medical costs. He works at a non p…

The person in the Twitter thread notes how her minimum wage mother had cancer. I think it is highly unlikely that someone working at a minimum wage job would be covered for that by their insurance (I may be wrong) This now infamous reddit comment puts it into perspective very well: https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/hj6t3t/not...

Are you really unaware of Medicaid? Here in Maryland, a 3-person household like the author's can make up to $29,000/year and be eligible for Medicaid.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#47

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #32

Whatever your politics, we should endeavor to stop giving oxygen to rhetoric that misstates easily verifiable facts: > I don't wanna make 250k while most people work three jobs About 5% of people work more than one job in the US: https://www.qualityinfo.org/-/it-takes-two-or-more-oregon-s-... In Germany, where the author is based, that figure is 3.5 million of a labor force of 45 million--over 7% https://www.dw.com/e…

You're technically correct, but are picking at straws

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Even from your link:

> Nearly 3 million people worked a "minijob" — meaning they earned €450 ($499) or less per month — on the side of a full-time job.

So they have a "main job". How many of those in the US would just be unaccounted for? How big is the size of "under the table" jobs in the US?

How easy is to qualify for Medicaid or SS aid in the US?

Portugal is a low COL country, 430 Eur there is not comparable to $1260 where depending on the US you are it can be a lot of money or it can be nothing

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#48

Post by marcinzm » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

cnorthwood wrote: post #4

It seems very hard to compare the two figures. I guess the interesting way to compare them would be what's the disposable income you have to spend normalised against purchasing power. So gross salary, less taxes (payroll and any others if applicable), pension contributions, student loan repayments, medical insurance contributions (and other out-of-pocket expenses relating to that you may have to pay in a typical year…

Keep in mind that FAANG silicon valley paid something like $400-500k/year for those with 10 years experience pre-COVID. With top notch health insurance and other benefits (except vacation). Comes out to $250+k take home income after taxes (without deductions, no spouse, etc.). At that amount other considerations essentially no longer matter.

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#49

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

digianarchist wrote: post #8

exabrial wrote: post #3

It seems she's fairly ignorant of how things work here as the vast majority of his fears are unfounded. That's ok though, the point about comparing salaries is very valid, there's extreme cost of living differences among many other things. For a lot of Americans, the fear we have is being completely dependent on the government. Look at who is exiting presidential office, look who is entering. Attaching our fates to t…

Disagree on the cost of living point. London and Dublin are comparable to a lot of major US cities yet wages are much lower than these cities. Even Canada pays better than a lot of European cities when you factor in COL between say Toronto and London.

> Even Canada pays better than a lot of European cities when you factor in COL between say Toronto and London

Doubt. The sinking CAD is an issue and COL (except for rents) is usually lower in Europe

Re: Do not compare EU salaries with the US

#50

Post by marcinzm » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #46

jason0597 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person in the Twitter thread notes how her minimum wage mother had cancer. I think it is highly unlikely that someone working at a minimum wage job would be covered for that by their insurance (I may be wrong) This now infamous reddit comment puts it into perspective very well: https://old.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/hj6t3t/not...

Are you really unaware of Medicaid? Here in Maryland, a 3-person household like the author's can make up to $29,000/year and be eligible for Medicaid.

The US is really bad for the lower middle class in terms of social support. The poor can get passable benefits if they know how to apply but the middle class doesn't get that. As a note, there's other social issues with being poor in the US so I wouldn't recommend that either.