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How neutering dogs became the norm

moosenuggets.substack.com

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Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#41

Post by bpodgursky »

sn_master wrote: post #31
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #26

The author is claiming that dogs are rare in shelters now and that institutions are actively buying them from the same puppy mills that are being detracted. I can’t see that to be true- look at villa lobos rescue with over 130 pit bulls, and they have a nationwide show trying to adopt out their dogs. Hell my local aspca has 445 dogs looking for a new home within 25 miles of my zip code.

pit bulls are dangerous dogs, unlike most other breeds. source: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pitbull+attack Edit: https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019... 69% of fatalities due to dog bites were caused by the same breed.

The weaker version of this argument which is less likely to be downvoted is,

"A huge fraction of the pit bulls which are currently in shelters are not compatible with most homes who want to adopt dogs"

Pit bulls, whether or not they are inherently aggressive (and let's be honest, you get more aggressive pit bulls than Golden Retrievers), can do a HUGE amount of damage when they are.

Adopting a dog which can't be trusted around kids, much less other dogs (which is REALLY common for pets which end up in shelters), is simply a non-starter for many families, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect otherwise.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#42

Post by Niten »

projektfu wrote: post #38

As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their expectations of what their pet's life will be like. People who elected to leave their dogs intact are often shocked by something down the line. 1. Pyometra. Dogs do not have menopause, but they may stop cycling. When they do they can develop a uterine infection…

> 3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners.

Is there evidence of a causal relationship here?

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#44

Post by ambivalents »

dfxm12 wrote: post #25
ambivalents wrote: post #9

I'm faced with this decision now, and am leaning towards not neutering my pup. At the very least, I'll be waiting until he's one year old, when most of his sexual development has wound down. The vets I've been to have both encouraged I do it, at 6 months and at 9 months. And they have the financial incentive to do so. The whole practice feels archaic and somewhat cruel. I understand why people do it, but I wonder how…

I'll be honest, I'm not really a pet person and I'm curious about the issue. I think I understand the argument that animal rights activists make for spaying and neutering that it controls the population by making sure each pet has someone to care for it, reducing euthanasia rate and reducing strays that might attack people or other pets. The article argues this as well and explains that there's more to it than societ…

Neutering a male dog can increase the risk of certain health conditions, including bone cancer, obesity, and hypothyroidism [0]. Not neutering is also associated with certain health risks as well. So it's not clear cut without diving into the research. But this is just to say there are health-related arguments to be made for not neutering a dog.

'Cruel' may be a stretch, as I know the procedure is safe, apart from some minor discomfort to the dog. But you are fundamentally altering your dog, and I just don't want to take it lightly. It will almost certainly change who he is (his behavior, energy).

[0] - Decent summary of benefits and risks, with paper citations at the end. I haven't done a deep dive of the science yet. https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/long-term-health-risks...

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#46

Post by sjg007 »

Niten wrote: post #42
projektfu wrote: post #38

As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their expectations of what their pet's life will be like. People who elected to leave their dogs intact are often shocked by something down the line. 1. Pyometra. Dogs do not have menopause, but they may stop cycling. When they do they can develop a uterine infection…

> 3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners. Is there evidence of a causal relationship here?

They are running off to sow their oats.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#47

Post by ambivalents »

leetcrew wrote: post #20
ambivalents wrote: post #9

I'm faced with this decision now, and am leaning towards not neutering my pup. At the very least, I'll be waiting until he's one year old, when most of his sexual development has wound down. The vets I've been to have both encouraged I do it, at 6 months and at 9 months. And they have the financial incentive to do so. The whole practice feels archaic and somewhat cruel. I understand why people do it, but I wonder how…

one of the reasons people neuter dogs (males especially) is to lessen the chance of aggressive behavior. I don't know whether this is actually true, but it's one of the main reasons people give. the other (and more persuasive, imo) reason is simply to prevent the dog from procreating. there are already far more dogs and cats in the world than people are willing to home. unless you're able to keep your dog away from a…

By worse, do you mean his recovery was worse? Longer, harder?

I'm planning to make the decision by the time he turns 1, in a few months. While my dog isn't aggressive by any stretch, he is extremely high energy. I do wonder if neutering him will calm him down a little.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#48

Post by Mirioron »

dfxm12 wrote: post #25
ambivalents wrote: post #9

I'm faced with this decision now, and am leaning towards not neutering my pup. At the very least, I'll be waiting until he's one year old, when most of his sexual development has wound down. The vets I've been to have both encouraged I do it, at 6 months and at 9 months. And they have the financial incentive to do so. The whole practice feels archaic and somewhat cruel. I understand why people do it, but I wonder how…

I'll be honest, I'm not really a pet person and I'm curious about the issue. I think I understand the argument that animal rights activists make for spaying and neutering that it controls the population by making sure each pet has someone to care for it, reducing euthanasia rate and reducing strays that might attack people or other pets. The article argues this as well and explains that there's more to it than societ…

Apply the same question to humans. People have empathy.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#49

Post by gumby »

ambivalents wrote: post #9

I'm faced with this decision now, and am leaning towards not neutering my pup. At the very least, I'll be waiting until he's one year old, when most of his sexual development has wound down. The vets I've been to have both encouraged I do it, at 6 months and at 9 months. And they have the financial incentive to do so. The whole practice feels archaic and somewhat cruel. I understand why people do it, but I wonder how…

Breed affects this. We have large dogs (Irish Wolfhound and Great Dane) and it’s recommended not to neuter until the bone plates have fused — about 23 months. So I waited and did it pretty much as soon as possible. Smaller dogs can supposedly be done sooner.

Vets will neuter cats at six weeks which seems incredibly young, but “it’s fine”.

As far as I can tell there isn’t much actual science on this.

In my experience the best effect is on male cats — they become very sweet and friendly.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#50

Post by ardit33 »

chadlavi wrote: post #18
neolog wrote: post #3

Are there any places where dogs are not allowed as pets?

It's very common in NYC, at least among properties that target lower/lower-middle class incomes. Which is a real shame, honestly, because cats are almost always ok, and they're much more likely to make huge messes and actually damage finishes by clawing.

It is by necessity. (my building has this as well). Lots of old apartments in NYC have thin floors, where you can hear your neighbor's steps. Having a large dog jumping up and down all day, is a major nuisance. Cats are much quitter.
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