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A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

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41–50 of 60 posts

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#41
post #9

I'm never trusting software for two things: 1. Voting 2. Irreversible transactions

Don't be naive - the transaction is definitely reversible. It's just that enough Important people need to agree it is reversible. If it was an Important person who lost money, or the loss was big enough to be bad PR, they would hard fork the chain and pretend like the transaction never happened.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#42
post #28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose I'll be downvoted for this but my unpopular opinion is that I feel like the voting problem is solvable with some combination of decentralized and cryptographic tech. It's just that the people who can solve it don't want to solve it.

Its an active research area, there are proposals like helios https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Voting which check some of the boxes but aren't perfect . I'm sure cryptographers would love to come up with a fully scalable, trustless, verifiable, anonomous, coercion resistant system. But that's a hard set of properties to satisfy especially if nothing is in the physical world. If you allow physical voting places,…

No, scan the full paper ballots with personal info redacted and make them publicly accessible so anyone can count the result.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#43
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about voting is that for the public to trust voting, it needs to be something a general member of the public can understand. That is why paper balloting is such a durable voting mechanism. Pretty well anyone can understand how you would take a stack of paper ballots and decide who got the most votes. From there you just need to maintain a chain of custody where all ballots are monitored by any interested pa…

I understand the argument here, but to play devil's advocate... In the 2020 presidential election, tens of millions of people had trouble understanding how paper ballots worked. I'm not sure the argument about public trust is that durable or cogent at this point.

Most people who claim that there was fraud in the election focus on the voting machines — that they were programmed to "flip" votes, there were servers in Germany, or they had some linearly "weighted" mode which was allegedly turned on. They claim that "the algorithm" caused the election to be stolen from Trump.

If we created a cryptographic voting system with homomorphic encryption to preserve privacy, they would be claiming the exact same thing — except in that case, you wouldn't be able to recount the ballots by hand.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it is solvable. Voting has to satisfy two requirements: 1) Votes must be private and anonymous (i.e. not linked to your identity) 2) Voting must be secure It's easy to satisfy either one of these requirements, but currently impossible to satisfy both.

I would argue that the paper voting doesn't satisfy both conditions either. And while putting a paper in a box is vividly understandable to the average voter, whatever happens to the vote after that point isn't, as evident by the number of people believing that a Texas lawsuit may overturn Michigan election results.

That's because there's video evidence of Fulton County Georgia poll workers clearing out all poll watchers on the basis of a bullshit pipe leak story and then as soon as everyone left they brought out suitcases of ballots and started scanning them in. There's 1000 affidavits of egregious election fraud and abuse in this election. The Supreme Court's refusal to even hear Texas's case is outrageous.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#45
post #41
post #9

I'm never trusting software for two things: 1. Voting 2. Irreversible transactions

Don't be naive - the transaction is definitely reversible. It's just that enough Important people need to agree it is reversible. If it was an Important person who lost money, or the loss was big enough to be bad PR, they would hard fork the chain and pretend like the transaction never happened.

No it's irreversible. Ethereum had one hard fork in its history (the DAO hack of 2016) and it was contentious and caused a split in the community. It can't be done Willy nilly.

Wallets should do more to prevent these types of sends from occuring, providing warnings. But you should also never ever send $50K without a test transaction of some token amount first.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#46
post #13
post #9

I'm never trusting software for two things: 1. Voting 2. Irreversible transactions

I suppose I'll be downvoted for this but my unpopular opinion is that I feel like the voting problem is solvable with some combination of decentralized and cryptographic tech. It's just that the people who can solve it don't want to solve it.

I mean, it's been already solved with a decentralized, low-cost, secure technology. It's called paper, and it has this wonderful security property that the amount of work needed to subvert the result is proportional to the number of votes you need to change, whatever you do.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do. That is a feature, not a bug. It gives digital transactions the same properties as cash. When you hand over $50K in cash to someone, you better make sure you trust that someone. When you send $50K in crypto to an address, you better make sure you trust that address. People have to learn new habits and precautions with crypto. With great power comes great responsibility. Maybe the UI for wallets should d…

When you hand someone cash you can get the cash back. You know the person you can chase them down.

No, you can't necessarily get it back. It's like sending cash internationally, but you sent it to the wrong address and now you don't know who the fuck has it.

Re: A Crypto User Sent $50k to a Smart Contract. It's Gone Forever

#50
post #5

Why don't these tech support the oldest trick every financial companies have been doing? They send a cent and see if the recipient received it or not. If the money went through and is secured, then send the rest. Simply by doing this, you could avoid almost all incidents like these.

On decentralized exchanges, a single ERC-20 coin transaction can sometimes be as expensive as $50+ in gas fees and take 15-30 minutes to confirm. Sending a test transaction of $1 is not always feasible.
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