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Free internet for all not such a bad idea

theguardian.com

41–50 of 61 posts

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow It also just enables people to communicate and access information. Kinda weird that we need to make a business pitch to show that something is essential. Then again, we're living under capitalism.

How is capitalism part of this conversation? Socialism also has to debate the merits of making something essential. It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home. As much as some people would have liked it.

> > > It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow

> > It also just enables people to communicate and access information. Kinda weird that we need to make a business pitch to show that something is essential.

> How is capitalism part of this conversation? Socialism also has to debate the merits of making something essential

Indeed, and the social and societal merits are that it enables equal access to education (per the letter in the article) for all, especially in times of a pandemic.

Meanwhile the capitalist merits are that it also enables greater amounts of commerce to occur.

The parent commenter is lamenting that the gains to society outside that exclude increase in capital flows aren’t sufficient to justify something, and that a capitalist gain needs to also be present to provide that justification. While also noting that we do live in a capitalist society.

> It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home. As much as some people would have liked it.

I’m not sure that the USSR is relevant here. I’m not sure sparkling water adds value to society in the same way as access to electricity, clean running potable water, or the Internet does. One is is a non-essential luxury item. It’s increasingly difficult to argue with a straight face that Internet access is a non-essential luxury.

EDIT: that’s not to say there isn’t an argument to be made that access to the Internet today is a non-essential luxury, and if someone actually has a good faith case to make, by all means please do!

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#42
post #17
post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

> It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow It also just enables people to communicate and access information. Kinda weird that we need to make a business pitch to show that something is essential. Then again, we're living under capitalism.

[flagged]

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is capitalism part of this conversation? Socialism also has to debate the merits of making something essential. It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home. As much as some people would have liked it.

>It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home The USSR was NOT Socialism nor was it Communism, that was just a motto to establish absolute power lead from a small elite circle (the withered core of the communist party). It's kind of the opposite of communism and especially socialism. BTW it would have been extremely interesting if Israel went that route (maybe the first real, and humane communist…

Spoiler Alert - all communism seems to end up that way.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#44
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I heard Estonians even get a state-sponsored E-Mail address, which I'd take any day over "hoping that google won't randomly delete me for reasons beyond my control".

I trust Google with my data over most governments. Estonia might be an exception.

Why? I don't think I trust any of them especially.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it really irritates me when renting or purchasing a house/apartment that they often won't say (sometimes don't even know) if it has fibre coverage or not. I lived in a flat that only had ADSL a few years ago and I never intend on going back to that.

Don’t know what it’s like where you live, but in this side of the world, once I have the address of the flat (which I can get before I even view), I can lookup what broadband options are available to me. Any property that only has ADSL at best doesn’t get a viewing. Even FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) ends up at the bottom of the short list. FTTP is pretty vital now for me, and very much features as one of the deciding…

I can look it up on various providers, but it's not that reliable (as one has to check with quite a few providers as they don't all share lines).

Also often the address isn't given until after you've arranged a viewing so it's a pain.

It should just be listed like other utilities like heating, air conditioning etc.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#46
There are multiple ways to achieve the same effective outcome.

In Finland person living alone gets 502.21 EUR per month of "basic income support" (rent is paid using different support system). The sum is calculated using imputed costs where phone, internet and daily newspaper are 20% of the monthly expenses (100 EUR per month)

If person can't manage his income (alcoholic, drug addict, mental problems) social services might pay some of those directly.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#47
post #43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home The USSR was NOT Socialism nor was it Communism, that was just a motto to establish absolute power lead from a small elite circle (the withered core of the communist party). It's kind of the opposite of communism and especially socialism. BTW it would have been extremely interesting if Israel went that route (maybe the first real, and humane communist…

Spoiler Alert - all communism seems to end up that way.

Again, the USSR was NOT Communism.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#48

That's a very bad idea. If there was to be a super cheap/free tier it also had to be rather limited in bandwidth, barely enough for e.g. remote school to remove these barriers. But if it was too good you'd essentially kill off private providers giving the government even more control over people's communication. Right now they at least need to pass laws and face backlash to force ISPs to censor stuff. If your governm…

In the US, the government is restricted by the First Amendment. The oversight is the courts.

Censorship by private ISPs wasn't allowed when we had net neutrality, but at the moment they can do whatever they want.

If most places had competitive free markets for internet, that might be be ideal, but we basically have monopoly providers in much of the country.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#49
post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

In Germany just because you have a TV-enabled deviced, you pay a fee to GEZ to finance public broadcasters I suppose. I'm not sure if they will consider "free internet" as another way to access TV and charge you.

Iceland has a similar fee, which goes towards our national radio and television broadcaster.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#50
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I heard Estonians even get a state-sponsored E-Mail address, which I'd take any day over "hoping that google won't randomly delete me for reasons beyond my control".

I'm not sure I want my e-mail stored in government servers... Yet I don't like private companies storing it... And it's too complicated to manage on my own. Damn.

Due to those concerns I've settled for a privacy focused private company set up in a country with strong information- and privacy regulation. Protonmail.
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