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The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

royalsocietypublishing.org

41–50 of 104 posts

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#41

While it's interesting to read about these concepts in the context of the time they were established (even if they do come off as hopelessly classist) I have always despised how they become conventional wisdom far beyond their shelf life. It compels people to ignore their unique life circumstances in favor of a shortcut explanation that may not apply to them at all. I've always been similarly wary of concepts like "r…

> If we have a bunch of de-personalized frameworks to help explain the course of our own lives, it only moves us farther away from seeing our lives for what they really are

Very well put. I feel most popular content about {categorized mental dynamic} has gone through a sort of natural selection of ideas, where they evolve to appear as very sound explanations to a general, population-scale public forum. But they equivalently become pointlessly broad brushes when applied to problems whose natures arise from nuanced and unique individual lives.

And just because an idea has alluring memetic “aha! that explains it!” power, it doesn’t mean it’s true, particularly regarding mental states. I do believe there will someday be a generalizable-yet-customizable framework for understanding, but at the moment, there's definitely a systemic correlation between the distribution of an idea and its vagueness (like medium articles about productivity)

So I find it’s most helpful to have an in-depth discussion with another human (familiar with the situation if possible). As a bonus, you can then incorporate knowledge from your own relationship with that person, perhaps an understanding of how they think too, and thus get a more complete picture.

After such discussions, I inevitably think, “Wow, no way that nuance could have been pinpointed in society’s general discussion of this topic.”

Some of the (IMO) most productive conversations I’ve had with friends re: our psychology and life reflections, I feel would be torn to smithereens or ridiculed by “modern” popular understandings.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#42
post #2

I'm in my late 20s, and already starting to feel some anxiety around the nearing conclusion of what could be called my "youth". But my therapist, in his forties, has experienced (and relayed to me) the "life begins at 40" philosophy (I didn't actually realize it was something other people said until I saw this article). It's not just wishful thinking for him: he felt that he didn't really figure out who he was, didn'…

Maybe your therapist can say life begins at 40 because for a therapist their career starts kicking into high gear at that point and really just keeps going upward until retirement. For a software developer your career can start heading downhill even before 40 - age seems to have no advantage (with regard to career stability) for software developers like it does for therapists, doctors and lawyers.

I am a software developer, my career had its best moments when I was in my 20s, but at 43 I am making more money with less effort and more enjoyment than all the past 20 years combined.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#43

I just finished reading “Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear” by Elizabeth Gilbert (of Eat, Pray, Love fame) and she brought up a related and interesting idea I can paraphrase: In midlife we’re concerned with status and our outward appearance, which can hinder creative output. Then we get older and realize that we don’t care what anyone thinks about us, which can lead to more creative risk taking and accomplishmen…

Sounds like the loser, clueless, sociopath transition.

Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that being unconcerned about how one appears to others is a sociopathic trait? Which aspect of the GP would make someone a "loser"?

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#44

This has been going on a long time. Take for example Julius Caesar at the age of 33 as recorded by Plutarch: > In like manner we are told again that, in Spain, when he was at leisure and was reading from the history of Alexander, he was lost in thought for a long time, and then burst into tears. His friends were astonished, and asked the reason for his tears. "Do you not think," said he, "it is matter for sorrow that…

I think this is precisely it. We all (many?) of us expect ourselves to have an extraordinary life and then we inevitably end up with something more ordinary than expected.

I do wonder though if there is an additional component for folks in tech careers. If you stay heavily invested in the technology aspect of it, you might start wondering how much longer you can keep up with you folks in learning about the latest technology. If you move to the management track, you might feel less secure about your job and your ability to get a new position, especially as your former strong suit, the tech knowledge, atrophies. I moved to the manager track and sometimes interview folks for manager positions who are 10-15 years older than me and have been struggling to find a job for a very long time. Their tech skills are entirely outdated and I ask myself if that's me in 10 years.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is a therapist. All the therapists in her office are - always - busy, even if they’re 22. People seek all kinds of qualities in a therapist. “Older and wiser” is not a ubiquitous appeal.

Nice coincidence - my wife is also a therapist. But to get there, in my country, you need a lot of work and training, you cannot really be a 22-year old therapists. First you have to finish psychology (ages from 18 to 22), then finish Master's degree in psychology (22 to 24) and then another 6 years (24-30) for psychodynamic psychotherapy training coupled with regular therapy for yourself under a more experience advi…

Your can become a therapist here (Minnesota in USA) with 4 years (undergraduate bachelors degree) plus 2 years Masters degree (for example, social work or marriage and family counseling).

There are - of course - higher levels of training and certification, but that gets you in front of people and diagnosing.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#46

Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. This leads to a reliable pattern of teens “hating” their parents, a phenomenon that is non existent in the rest of the world especially Asia. This also leads to a huge disparity in what percentage of kids…

>Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. There's no doubt we're in this awkward generation where our parents were probably treated with corporal punishment, but still want to inflict onto their kids this which they were exposed to as a kid despite this no longer looking good/being legal. Even the anti-child-abuse book "For Your Own Good" by Alice…

How do you push through a phase with no corrective mechanism allowed on the other side? How do you propose you correct your kids? Corporal punishment is quick and decisive and both parties can move on quickly as opposed to the lifelong mental baggage that weighs down a lot of people in the western world.

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#47
"We are now trapped in a world of kids. Old kids. The disappearance of patrimonial transmission means that an old guy today is just a useless ruin. The thing we value most of all is youth, which means that life automatically becomes depressing, because life consists, on the whole, of getting old."

--Houellebecq

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. There's no doubt we're in this awkward generation where our parents were probably treated with corporal punishment, but still want to inflict onto their kids this which they were exposed to as a kid despite this no longer looking good/being legal. Even the anti-child-abuse book "For Your Own Good" by Alice…

How do you push through a phase with no corrective mechanism allowed on the other side? How do you propose you correct your kids? Corporal punishment is quick and decisive and both parties can move on quickly as opposed to the lifelong mental baggage that weighs down a lot of people in the western world.

What makes you say you can quickly move on?

Isn’t it the whole point to create a powerful memory that instills lasting fear and influences all future decisions?

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the loser, clueless, sociopath transition.

Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying that being unconcerned about how one appears to others is a sociopathic trait? Which aspect of the GP would make someone a "loser"?

I believe parent is referencing this specifically: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Re: The demographic and cultural roots of the midlife crisis

#50
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe your therapist can say life begins at 40 because for a therapist their career starts kicking into high gear at that point and really just keeps going upward until retirement. For a software developer your career can start heading downhill even before 40 - age seems to have no advantage (with regard to career stability) for software developers like it does for therapists, doctors and lawyers.

It doesn't? There are all sorts of things I think I do better now.

Oh, definitely same here (mid 50s) - lots of things I know and do better now than I did in my 20s. But we're not valued the same by industry.
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