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EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

bbc.com

41–50 of 332 posts

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#41
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

> quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents. Have you heard of laws and governments before? This is exactly what they do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing. If you’re gonna give that much power to an organisation, you want to make sure you can change it if start going off the rails. > The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); It might not have “creat…

I was just answering the parent's question: "I wonder what those people who keep saying it is Apple's platform they can do what ever they want had to say?"

With respect to political authority, I have some rather unpopular views... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Political_Autho...

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#42
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another interesting tidbit is the answer to the common trope that 'private platform can act as they wish since they are private' : Now the EU is saying the same thing to Apple. It is their market, and they dictate the rules. Which is perhaps a taste of Apple's own medicine? I wonder what those people who keep saying it is Apple's platform they can do what ever they want had to say? I sometimes wonder had Apple not b…

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

Governments do however create corporations, which is an artificial structure that can only exist due to government control over the intersection between the marketplace and the legal system.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#43

Doesn't look like the type of regulation we were hoping for. The regulation seems to apply to content moderation and controlling information. Basically the exact opposite of what we need.

Yeah, based on the article Facebook reactly quite positively to the proposed laws, which isn't a good sign. I'd like to be proven wrong, and there are some parts I like, such as not allowing preinstalled/unremovable apps. But on the whole I think the increased moderation/verification burdens are just going to cement existing companies in their market position, and create all kinds of oppurtunities for corruption in how content moderation disputes are handled.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#44
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another interesting tidbit is the answer to the common trope that 'private platform can act as they wish since they are private' : Now the EU is saying the same thing to Apple. It is their market, and they dictate the rules. Which is perhaps a taste of Apple's own medicine? I wonder what those people who keep saying it is Apple's platform they can do what ever they want had to say? I sometimes wonder had Apple not b…

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

The EU is its citizens. So in a sense the EU did create its citizens.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#46
post #44
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

The EU is its citizens. So in a sense the EU did create its citizens.

I'm actually an EU citizen, who has never lived there, and never even visited. I did not create the EU; did the EU create me?

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#47

If you can't compete, better slap successful companies with regulations, more red tape and arbitrary fines! That creates good unionized civil servant jobs to work out all these new compliance regulations! Good for reelection I assume.

Moreover, you're cutting your throat by introducing yet more regulation that only established players can afford to comply with. All of the previous steps in this direction have been massive boons to Facebook, Google, Amazon, Apple, etc.

Exactly!

But all that compliance busy-work is generally done in the country that enacts these regulations. So you just created a bunch of non-technical jobs at tech companies.

Meanwhile, engineering is still done in California.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#48

A interesting point missing from the BBC article is that they have different levels of expectations between small to medium businesses and large ones, to avoid regulatory capture ? : > Platforms that reach more than 10% of the EU's population (45 million users) are considered systemic in nature, and are subject not only to specific obligations to control their own risks, but also to a new oversight structure. Another…

Isn't 10% too low a number to consider a platform systemic?

I think this might actually put Spotify on the list. Whether or not you agree if it should be, at least Spotify is no small dog.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#49

> The operators of online platforms - such as social media apps and video-sharing sites of any size - must prioritise complaints raised by "trusted flaggers", who have a track record of highlighting valid problems. Who determines which problems are valid? Unless I overlooked something, this article seems really vague. > Likewise, all online stores must be able to trace traders selling goods via their platforms, in ca…

> Who determines which problems are valid? Unless I overlooked something, this article seems really vague.

We're still early doors on this, but presumably the legislation when it's written will have more details.

But based on how most other regulation in the EU is handled, and thinking of how these questions are handled in the banking industry, I assume the company gets to decide. But the company will be expect to demonstrate to regulators that their content guidelines are:

1. A a minimum restrict illegal content, already defined in law

2. Don't discriminate against protected classes

3. Are fair, along with an explanation of why they're fair

4. There are policies and procedures that ensure they're applied fairly (again with explanation of why it's fair), and there's evidence they're actually being followed.

I expect that there will be significant latitude for regulators to decide what level of evidence is required, and how you demonstrate fairness. After all no one really know how to do this, so it doesn't make sense to write prescriptive detailed laws which are guaranteed to wrong. The different regulators will end up converging on a common understanding, if the don't, then expect the EU to setup a super regulator or similar to force greater convergence.

As for the standard argument of "oh but then how am I meant to know what to do" etc

1. Regulators will publish guidelines

2. Regulators will work with companies to make sure everyone agrees nothing draconian is happening, and equally make sure companies don't get off scot free.

3. Regulators won't punish companies that are clearly making a best effort attempt to follow the spirit of the law.

4. The EU has plenty of expertise doing this, look at financial regulation, GDPR etc No one who's actually had to follow tricky EU regulation before is worrying about this, unless it looks like the regulation basically outlaws their business.

> Hopefully this authentication mechanism can be inexpensive such that it doesn't disenfranchise too much legitimate business at the small end of the spectrum;

You'll be glad to hear it basically already exists in the EU. Open banking will make this process so much easier. Amazon will be able to lean on banks to handle some of this process, rather than building from scratch, with Open banking providing unified APIs to connect to almost any bank in the EU. And talking as someone whos help build bank grade Know Your Customer and Know Your Business processes and systems, it's much easier than you think (not easy, but Amazon won't struggle). Not to mention there's a flourishing industry of tech companies already solving these problems for FinTechs.

> I'm really wary of "disinformation that could sway elections" and "unjustified targeting of minority groups"; how do you litigate these fairly? One person's "racial advocacy" is another person's "racial patronization". These seem super subjective and thus ripe for abuse. Hopefully this too is just a case of poor journalism and the legislation is better.

As with the "trusted flaggers" above, I expect there to be quite a lot of latitude for regulators to decide. With your specific example, entities like the European Court of Human Rights will be the ultimate backstop for preventing abuse. It may take 5-10 years for all the court cases to be raised and litigated to that level, but it'll happen. The EU has good track record of balancing these concerns, and providing the legal infrastructure to allow these thing to be litigated. No doubt it'll figure it out, just like its done plenty of times before.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#50
post #20

Does this prevent Apple from shipping iMessage by default on iPhones unless they bundle Facebook and WhatsApp, etc.?

I think what they're trying to do is force Apple (and other OS makers) to provide the ability to uninstall built-in apps. So, your iPhone will come with Apple's default messaging app, but you would potentially have the ability to uninstall it.

It also says their own app can't be placed more favorably on the screen, and a default app certainly sounds more favorable than one not on the screen.
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