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Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

psyche.co

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Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#41

It mentions those with "dark traits" tend to be seen as poor team players, but perhaps that's exactly why these types ascend to top leadership positions. Your "team play" ability only matters to the extent that you engage in peer-to-peer relationships, which can be relatively minimal in that position compared to, say, middle management. See, for instance, Steve Jobs. I've never heard him described as a "team player",…

>Your "team play" ability only matters to the extent that you engage in peer-to-peer relationships

It doesn't "only matter" in relationships that are horizontal on the org chart. They're just not the totality of the non-peer relationships. Understanding and communicating boundaries between teaming and exercising authority is key to efficiently moving everyone toward a target.

To torture the sports team metaphor more, the captains on a team are players but also an authority among the players. To the front office, a coach is a member of the gameday team.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#42
post #37
post #6

The test itself is very well done - they try to get people to respond precisely, but checking attention, and asking multiple times questions about the same concept. However, the article has a very fundamental flaw: > Unfortunately, most people with extreme levels of dark personality traits don’t want to change who they are. Despite not being particularly happy with their lives The test doesn't deal with "happiness" a…

I've found Daniel Khaneman's definition of happiness being useful here. He divides happiness into two parts: a "experiential" happiness and a "reflecting" happiness. For the sake of the discussion and acknowledging I have zero insight into his personality, someone like Steve Jobs could be low in "experiential" happiness (seemingly endlessly frustrated in the present moment) and high on the "reflecting" happiness ("lo…

What is his evidence for "reflecting" happiness?

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#43
'Success' and 'Happiness' may be conflated, depending on how Success is defined.

I think it's interesting to focus on Success, and then consider two types: a) Success for personal benefit, b) success achieving a higher purpose.

(Intentionally referencing film characters)

Success for personal benefit may be illustrated by Jordan Belfort in Wolf of Wall Street. He succeeded in becoming, for a while, the type of wealthy person he imagined as a young man that he wanted to become.

Success achieving a higher purpose may be illustrated by Terence Fletcher from Whiplash. He succeeded in turning musicians with talent into accomplished performers.

Both personalities could be considered 'dark'. One succeeded by being a charming pathological liar. The other by dismissing any sense of empathy and driving others with severe, manipulative criticism.

But in the end, it was type a) that eventually flamed out and type b) that had an enduring impact on his profession.

I think the notion of 'how to get the most out of people' actually depends on the people you are trying to get the most out of. Many musicians quit under Terence because the achievement was not worth the suffering along the way. Others were motivated to excellence by his style, and he didn't care that they hated him for it.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#44

The term dark personalities refer to a set of socially aversive traits (such as spitefulness, greed, sadism, narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism) in the subclinical range. And thus, according yo this article, those with dark personality traits are slightly more likely to emerge as leaders and are seen as charismatic but, when it comes to getting the job done, they tend to achieve less and are considered poo…

To which one can ask, what are the consequences of not getting the job done or not being a team player?

I don't see much, but I'm a cynic.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#45
post #42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Daniel Khaneman's definition of happiness being useful here. He divides happiness into two parts: a "experiential" happiness and a "reflecting" happiness. For the sake of the discussion and acknowledging I have zero insight into his personality, someone like Steve Jobs could be low in "experiential" happiness (seemingly endlessly frustrated in the present moment) and high on the "reflecting" happiness ("lo…

What is his evidence for "reflecting" happiness?

Essentially your memories after the moment has past.

I heard Steve Rinella talking about this as it relates to hunting. He spoke about how there's some trips where you're miserable in the moment (cold, bug-bitten) but when it's all over you have fond memories of the experience and consider it worthwhile.

If you mean specific to Jobs, I don't have any and was just trying to relate to the OP comment, which is why I couched it with the caveat that I have no insight into his psychology. Maybe he generally was happy during the moment and maybe he was actually miserable when reflecting on his life, I have no idea.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#47
post #7

>Overall, individuals with dark traits engage in more counterproductive work behaviour, such as theft and abusive supervision. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they don’t end up with higher average incomes than their peers with light personalities. >The key factor here seems to be empathy: the capacity to resonate with – and understand the perspective of – the emotional experiences of others. Individuals with light personalit…

>> In our new research, we found that this seems to be what leads to a more satisfying life. Similarly, being prosocial – acting kindly, cooperatively and with compassion toward others – is also significantly linked with higher wellbeing.

> Maybe the comparison between "dark traits" and "light personalities" yields this, but its been shown pretty consistently that higher agreeableness (more empathy) has a negative effect on salary, primarily for women.

You seem to be comparing apples and oranges: I do not think "higher wellbeing" is the same thing as "higher salary," and whatever correlation there is due to the stress of being poor (and thus is less and less signficant as salary progresses past a minimum threshold).

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#48
'If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? During the life of any heart this line keeps changing place; sometimes it is squeezed one way by exuberant evil and sometimes it shifts to allow enough space for good to flourish. One and the same human being is, at various ages, under various circumstances, a totally different human being. At times he is close to being a devil, at times to sainthood. But his name doesn’t change, and to that name we ascribe the whole lot, good and evil.

Socrates taught us: “Know thyself.” Confronted by the pit into which we are about to toss those who have done us harm, we halt, stricken dumb: it is after all only because of the way things worked out that they were the executioners and we weren’t. From good to evil is one quaver, says the proverb. And correspondingly, from evil to good.'

--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#49
post #7

>Overall, individuals with dark traits engage in more counterproductive work behaviour, such as theft and abusive supervision. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they don’t end up with higher average incomes than their peers with light personalities. >The key factor here seems to be empathy: the capacity to resonate with – and understand the perspective of – the emotional experiences of others. Individuals with light personalit…

Also, narcissistsic sociopaths can have a high capacity for empathy in the sense of knowing what others feel and think while also ruthlessly manipulating, being two-faced based on who is present and the gaslighting others when these obvious differences are brought up (differences like switching the entire tone of voice and mannerisms at the flip of a switch, as if it was new person, just to suck up to or put down peo…

> a nightmare because they appear so charming outward to powerful people in decision making positions, while being cruel and sadistic to others

I wouldn't conflate emotional intelligence - i.e. the ability to modulate behavior based on person specific interactions - with necessarily possessing negative, vindictive, malign or cruel personality traits. That's definitely a stereotype.

It is entirely possible to be charming, without secretly being cruel or vindictive. Yes, it can be more difficult to judge a disarming person's intentions, but that doesn't mean the person is inherently sadistic or ill willed. Perhaps they are just good at making other people feel comfortable.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#50

The term dark personalities refer to a set of socially aversive traits (such as spitefulness, greed, sadism, narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism) in the subclinical range. And thus, according yo this article, those with dark personality traits are slightly more likely to emerge as leaders and are seen as charismatic but, when it comes to getting the job done, they tend to achieve less and are considered poo…

It also notes the low life satisfaction and a desire to never change and instead aquire more power over people.

They seem to be confident in themselves but unable to self analyze.

Looks like putting these people in positions of power is terrible as they will lead to an overall worse performance for your company.

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