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Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

theguardian.com

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Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#41

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

dctoedt wrote: post #38
mikem170 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we take that logic to the reductio ad absurdum, the other adults in your neighborhood could choose to band together, forcibly evict you from your house, and let one of their number live there — after all, that'd be their adult choice, right? The inaction of those who don't want to be caregivers is not the same as an action taken to forcibly evict someone. Making an equivalence of the two would mean that anyone w…

> The inaction of those who don't want to be caregivers is not the same as an action taken to forcibly evict someone. Agreed, but the distinction might not be relevant. > Making an equivalence of the two would mean that anyone who is capable of helping someone else and does not is in the wrong. Depending on the jurisdiction, there are circumstances in which the law says exactly that. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/…

> Depending on the jurisdiction...

well, ok, I see your point but is this one of those cases? I'm pretty sure it's not; to rescue is a transient thing and of extreme circumstances, and nothing like caregiving which is a long-term process.

Edit: and therefore the distinction is relevant.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#42

Post by Baeocystin »

xwdv wrote: post #12

When you’re locked in, how do you know you’re locked in and not just dead, and this is what eternity will be like for you forever? Sure you might think you’re alive at first, but then what if you get a crazy idea that you died and you’re just a Boltzmann brain right now or something. Any way to prove you’re alive?

I remember nothing of any of the 14-odd billion years up until this point in time. I take that as a sign I will have the same (non)experience once I'm dead. Based on that, if I am consciously aware, that means I'm alive as I expect, and not a dreaming goldfish, so to speak.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#43

Post by mikem170 »

nkrisc wrote: post #14
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please let adults evaluate the risks and make up their own minds. Otherwise it sounds like MPTP https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/01/12/frozen-addicts-garage-d... but that kills dopamine producing cells, so did he regrow these?

If they live out in the woods on their own, sure. Otherwise I'm fine being part of a society that has some restrictions we impose on ourselves.

>Otherwise I'm fine being part of a society that has some restrictions we impose on ourselves.

Unless 100% of people agree to the restrictions then you are imposing on others, not just yourself. Personally I think that we as a society impose on a lot of people for a lot of things and a lot of it is wrong.

I like the principal of imposing on others as little as possible, preferably not at all. Otherwise there's nothing to stop the more powerful majority from screwing over the less powerful minority at some point.

Some examples: Drug laws to imprison african-americans, zoning laws to keep the poor out, voting for taxes on others for charitable causes, blue laws, corporate monopolies, the environment and the tragedy of the commons, making it illegal for the homeless to sleep, algorithms and bureaucracy imposed on others, punishing non-conformity, etc.

I've always thought the principal of not imposing on others is a good idea. I thought it would make a great amendment to the constitution. With this principal to limit the tyranny of the majority, and the manipulated or fickle masses, we could still tackle all of societies problems, and filter out a lot of abuses along the way.

But lately I'm thinking that this just seems to be impractical. It seems that too many individuals, groups, corporations, and leaders want to impose on others. They are selfish and want the world to be as they say and they don't care so much about who has to pay or suffer for it.

I wish this got talked about more. I assume we all have in common that we don't want to be imposed upon by others.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#44

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

nkrisc wrote: post #31
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from the US? If so do you agree with US gun culture which "2017, [...] the [the CDC's] National Center for Health Statistics reports that gun deaths reached their highest level since 1968, with 39,773 deaths by firearm" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta... ) One person paralysed by a contaminant (not heroin itself) = bad, but tens of thousands of deaths otherwise = ok. I agree wit…

For what it's worth, restrictions on guns are one of those restrictions I'm OK with. Why do you think I'm OK with the outrageous number of gun deaths we have? Besides this is about heroin.

The discussion is about proportionality.

> Why do you think I'm OK with the outrageous number of gun deaths we have?

I'm not but guns tend to be used to kill other people much more than drugs can be used to kill other people. So I'm more ok with people taking drugs. But not fully ok, the issue's too complex.

> Besides this is about heroin.

It's not. The damage done was most likely from a contaminant (see my note about MPTP) so not heroin. And if it was heroin it's still not about heroin because I said, exactly in the post you replied to, "Edit: none of this is about drugs or guns. It's about common sense and thinking for yourself." What I feel like I'm getting is kneejerk unthinking reactions from anti-drugs people. I may be wrong.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#45

Post by tharkun__ »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #18
xwdv wrote: post #12

When you’re locked in, how do you know you’re locked in and not just dead, and this is what eternity will be like for you forever? Sure you might think you’re alive at first, but then what if you get a crazy idea that you died and you’re just a Boltzmann brain right now or something. Any way to prove you’re alive?

I experienced this briefly a decade ago, give or take. Not much of a drinker or toker, I did a bit of both in the company of a friend. I then vomited all over the bar we were in, passed out, and was taken by ambulance to a hospital. You may know that it is typical for EMTs to assess and keep patient's mind active by asking questions, such as what is your name, today's date, during this type of situation. Well, high a…

Sounds a bit like my experience waking up from anethesia after an operation. I couldn't see but that didn't disturb me for some reason. I felt that I was lying down but had no idea why. I tried to sit up but couldn't. Whenever I tried something, some unknown force would push me down again. I tried over and over but couldn't do it. At some point I gave up.

A bit later I was able to open my eyes and my mum told me the nurses had been in panic because I was still hooked up to all the machines and the IV and they were afraid I'd pull it all out and/or hurt myself. They were the ones pushing me down when I tried to sit up.

I think I was like 10 or 12.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#46

Post by paulyy_y »

lordnacho wrote: post #6

I've been coming to terms with both my parents dying this year, and one of the eye opening things is how much worse it could have been. Seeking a bit of comfort, I went to different friends who I knew had lost a parent to speak about the experience. I hadn't expected it, but a couple of friends had truly traumatic losses. One of them was due to locked-in syndrome. After a stroke, my friend's dad had this happen to hi…

Sorry for your losses, that is really tough. I appreciate you sharing, it resonated with me. My mom's dad passed away two days ago and in the last two weeks before death a stroke destroyed his ability to speak. Nowhere near the level of locked in but terrible in its own way.

Death really is grim, I haven't had much exposure to it in my life up until losing two grandparents this year - holding my mother as she sobbed was heartbreaking.

I can't help but contrast the idyllic memories I have of my grandparents when I was young and the world was so bright and wonderful to the feelings of dread and sadness now. As if a layer of darkness has been laid over my perception of the world. It feels like hapiness and joy, things I used to find intrinsic to life, are now fleeting constructs that we build in spite of the inevitable. Maybe this is the difference between a youthful perception of the world and a mature one.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#47

Post by hyperdimension »

paulyy_y wrote: post #46
lordnacho wrote: post #6

I've been coming to terms with both my parents dying this year, and one of the eye opening things is how much worse it could have been. Seeking a bit of comfort, I went to different friends who I knew had lost a parent to speak about the experience. I hadn't expected it, but a couple of friends had truly traumatic losses. One of them was due to locked-in syndrome. After a stroke, my friend's dad had this happen to hi…

Sorry for your losses, that is really tough. I appreciate you sharing, it resonated with me. My mom's dad passed away two days ago and in the last two weeks before death a stroke destroyed his ability to speak. Nowhere near the level of locked in but terrible in its own way. Death really is grim, I haven't had much exposure to it in my life up until losing two grandparents this year - holding my mother as she sobbed…

I don't mean at all to detract from your story, but I've also had many family members die seemingly one after another in my relatively short life. I've also struggled with (well, maybe) unrelated deep depression all my life, and your last paragraph is so poignant, I just wanted to say thank you for putting a certain feeling that I've always felt into words but have never been able to write.

I'm sorry for your losses.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#49

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

mikem170 wrote: post #43
nkrisc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they live out in the woods on their own, sure. Otherwise I'm fine being part of a society that has some restrictions we impose on ourselves.

>Otherwise I'm fine being part of a society that has some restrictions we impose on ourselves. Unless 100% of people agree to the restrictions then you are imposing on others, not just yourself. Personally I think that we as a society impose on a lot of people for a lot of things and a lot of it is wrong. I like the principal of imposing on others as little as possible, preferably not at all. Otherwise there's nothin…

> Unless 100% of people agree to the restrictions then you are imposing on others, not just yourself

That's silly. 100% of people will never agree to it eg. people who are in prison aren't agreeing to it.

Re: Life on the inside as a ‘locked-in’ patient

#50

Post by [deleted] »

paulyy_y wrote: post #46
lordnacho wrote: post #6

I've been coming to terms with both my parents dying this year, and one of the eye opening things is how much worse it could have been. Seeking a bit of comfort, I went to different friends who I knew had lost a parent to speak about the experience. I hadn't expected it, but a couple of friends had truly traumatic losses. One of them was due to locked-in syndrome. After a stroke, my friend's dad had this happen to hi…

Sorry for your losses, that is really tough. I appreciate you sharing, it resonated with me. My mom's dad passed away two days ago and in the last two weeks before death a stroke destroyed his ability to speak. Nowhere near the level of locked in but terrible in its own way. Death really is grim, I haven't had much exposure to it in my life up until losing two grandparents this year - holding my mother as she sobbed…

[deleted]
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