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Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

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Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#41

Post by Mordisquitos »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #17
rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

Playing the devils advocate, and I think this is a pretty strong point against shrooms: while opioids cause harm, their harm is incredibly mechanical (it’s just addiction) and can be managed well. Shrooms play with your brain. We barely know how that works and quite frankly a lot of the research into managing the depressive episodes with shrooms may just be that you become more stupid and therefore less prone to thin…

I acknowledge you're playing devil's advocate, so don't take this too harshly, but the truism that "Shrooms play with your brain" is meaningless as an argument against shrooms—more so when contrasting it to "just an addiction". Where is an addiction anywhere but the brain?

Of course opioids play with your brain. So do SSRI antidepressants for example, whose very name is based on their most commonly accepted mechanism of action. And it's not only strictly psychiatric drugs—ADHD medication also plays with your brain, influencing dopamine pathways. But then so do gambling, and physical exercise, and meditation! Heck, even social media plays with your brain.

The mere fact that something has an effect on the brain is not in itself an argument against it—let alone when it is being proposed as a psychotherapeutic tool.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#42

Post by JackMorgan »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24
joeberon wrote: post #14

I also highly recommend mindfulness meditation to reduce fear of death and improve quality of life

For at most, 11/12 people. For some folks, it makes anxiety or depression worse than when they started. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251840-mindfulness-and... .

Unashamedly this happens to me. I really messed myself up meditating an hour a day for six months. It just became like a personal hell. Going into that room and turning off the lights somehow gave power to my fears and nightmares. I did however learn to let go of my ego a lot more, which I really enjoyed, and worked through a lot, but in the end it was deeply upsetting. I want to try it again sometime, but for now I've not gotten up the courage.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#43

Post by turrini »

abyssin wrote: post #31
turrini wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ayahuasca changed my life completely, for the better. I went from years of depression to zero depression in the first profound session. And I'm not a religious guy. I highly recommend.

I'd love to read your story. Did you write about it? The years of depression, traveling to the ayahuasca place, the sessions, the changes you made in your life afterwards.

I intend to write about it soon in the coming weeks and I will post my life changing experience here, for sure!

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#44

Post by mettamage »

xyzal wrote: post #2

Anecdote: I have suffered from anxiety since I can remember. I had the opportunity to take psilocybe a few times (always took about quarter of a dose than my trip-mates, out of fear of a bad trip, and most of the times had just subtle perceptual distortions), and the following days/weeks always seemed unusually serene.

Your dosage cannot be emphasized enough (!).

First time I took it, half a dose, I felt like a 12 year old child. It was a lot of fun.

Second time I took it, a full dose, I had a bad trip. But I was with my girlfriend, so it was never too bad. I also learned that I trust her completely emotionally. I relied on her a lot.

Third time I took it with a very close friend (15+ years of knowing, inspired each other to study psychology), a full dose again (I thought it would be fine by now), my trip was so bad that I had strong feelings of ending it all. Luckily enough my intelligence was waning fast as well, so I locked myself in a room. 10 minutes later I didn't know what was what, but I cried for 30 minutes and I didn't know why I cried. When I got out of the trip it did spur a soul search questioning myself, looking inward more deeply and that was beneficial but I was flying a bit too close to the sun for it to be worth it.

I should've gotten a trip sitter. I was naive at the time.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#45

Post by mettamage »

GordonS wrote: post #36

Story time. I recall one afternoon my friend and I picked and took some mushrooms (they grow in abundance at a certain time of year where I live), when I was perhaps 15 years old. We didn't take a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to wri…

Haha, that's an awesome story. To write something so off the scale. Like, you were an A-student! And you wrote something that was so unbelievably good, your teacher didn't believe it. That is pure gold.

So I have to ask. Do you still have that essay? And can I (email in profile), or we (HN), read it? I get it if you don't want to. Just asking if you're open to it :)

I think your story isn't properly finished ;-)

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#46

Post by varispeed »

rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

The problem is that in many western cultures suffering is being regarded as a virtue and happiness as a great sin especially if achieved by using substances rather than through other actions. You can glaringly see that where people with chronic pain are denied access to medicinal cannabis, for example here in the UK. You can only receive treatment through a private medical clinic which costs hundreds and sometimes thousands per month, so it is only reserved for the wealthy. NHS says there is no evidence it works, so they will not refund any treatment and in the meantime thousands have to resort to asking gangs for supply. If it doesn't work then why people take it? Do they fake chronic pain to get high?

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#47

Post by 3np »

lostgame wrote: post #30
3np wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ketamine is not generally considered a psychedelic. It's a disassociative. I don't think I've ever seen a study comparing this in the way you describe, but from piecing together other papers I recall seeing I would say probably psiloc(yb)in, possibly DMT ("ayahuasca"), with LSD and mescaline (peyote/san pedro) being qualitatively similar. All of these are primarily serotonergic. I'd be surprised if Salvia does jack s…

>> Ketamine is not generally considered a psychedelic. It's a disassociative. Yeah, I don't think people who say that have done a high enough dosage. :P

It can absolutely induce psychedelic experiences - in medical literature it's not generally (though this is not entirely consistent) classified as a psychedelic.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#48

Post by surfsvammel »

rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

I think it's a left over from the eighties, as a response to the hippie areas romantic view of such drugs. I also believe that is why, for example, LSD is so stigmatized.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#49

Post by mettamage »

JackMorgan wrote: post #42
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For at most, 11/12 people. For some folks, it makes anxiety or depression worse than when they started. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251840-mindfulness-and... .

Unashamedly this happens to me. I really messed myself up meditating an hour a day for six months. It just became like a personal hell. Going into that room and turning off the lights somehow gave power to my fears and nightmares. I did however learn to let go of my ego a lot more, which I really enjoyed, and worked through a lot, but in the end it was deeply upsetting. I want to try it again sometime, but for now I'…

I think the issue is that we don't have meditation teachers. I've had issues with meditation as well, because I didn't know how to deal with certain challenges.

Nowadays, I know how to use meditation as a tool that purely benefits me. I use it sparingly, since I'm a bit lazy. But I've noticed that using it sparingly is erring on the safer side while still getting the benefits.

In my case, I notice the benefits after each session. My mind is calmer and I get less easily upset. In another meditation I'm more empathetic. In another meditation I'm more easily loving.

All effects last for about half a day to a day, but they have ripple effects (i.e. had a good day yesterday? Chances are your day will be great as well today).

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#50

Post by Hendrikto »

GordonS wrote: post #36

Story time. I recall one afternoon my friend and I picked and took some mushrooms (they grow in abundance at a certain time of year where I live), when I was perhaps 15 years old. We didn't take a huge quantity, but enough for a mild, pleasant experience. That same evening I realised that I had to write an essay for school - it wasn't like me, but I'd completely forgotten about it, and now had a single evening to wri…

> He couldn't prove anything, so gave it a B and strongly warned me not to "pull a stunt like this ever again".

You should have gotten your A+… This seems really arbitrary and unfair. The teacher could not prove anything, but gave you a worse grade based on what? His personal opinion of your abilities? Dick move.

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