Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron • Hacker News Board

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#41

Post by janzer » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 12:13 PM UTC

voxadam wrote: post #39

buescher wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a Bob Pease column from years ago where he showed how to do full PID control with a single op-amp.

That's something I'd enjoy reading.

I'm guessing that it is this one https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/analog/article...

Unfortunately it looks like all the figures are 404 on the article, fortunately IA seems to have them https://web.archive.org/web/20201112004309/https://www.elect...

Edit: Bit of a funny aside; the editor who wrote the subtitle incorrectly identifies the P in PID as "Peripheral" even though the article correctly states it is "Proportional" in the fourth paragraph.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#42

Post by spongeb00b » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 12:15 PM UTC

mouldysammich wrote: post #36

dogma1138 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s for actual use and not hacking it would wait... $25 for a high powered device that one holds in their hand and has a heating element would have me worried.

Soldering irons generally are not expensive. Antex which is a fairly reputable soldering iron brand (as far as i understand) sell them as low as 10$ on amazon

Antex irons don't seem to get enough love in my opinion. They are (at least partially, I think) made in the UK and I've always preferred them as the handle/body is much thinner than many of the other available irons which I find a lot easier to use.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#43

Post by FeistySkink » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 12:18 PM UTC

The body is plastic just like TS-100. I've changed 2 cases on TS-100 already because they crack around the tip socket even without tightening. Only because of that issues this is not interesting.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#44

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

mouldysammich wrote: post #36

dogma1138 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s for actual use and not hacking it would wait... $25 for a high powered device that one holds in their hand and has a heating element would have me worried.

Soldering irons generally are not expensive. Antex which is a fairly reputable soldering iron brand (as far as i understand) sell them as low as 10$ on amazon

Dumb AC soldering irons don't have to be (unless you really care about temperature accuracy and ESD), portable gas soldering irons are also essentially glorified lighters.

However when you get into a DC soldering irons you do start getting into complexity that isn't as cheap to do safely.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#45

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 2:45 PM UTC

spongeb00b wrote: post #42

mouldysammich wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soldering irons generally are not expensive. Antex which is a fairly reputable soldering iron brand (as far as i understand) sell them as low as 10$ on amazon

Antex irons don't seem to get enough love in my opinion. They are (at least partially, I think) made in the UK and I've always preferred them as the handle/body is much thinner than many of the other available irons which I find a lot easier to use.

Antex have switched their production to China a while back, including their precision and soldering stations line.

They are cheap but with the exception of a few product aren't that good of a value for money for what you get.

Their soldering stations are rather anemic and getting bits is rather hard (they also have a very limited line of bits to begin with).

Their gas powered portable soldering irons are quite good they don't overheat, have decent control and are well built but their electric ones are simply a miss these days.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#46

Post by diang » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

Please don't plug heating elements into your computers.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#47

Post by rektide » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #33

londons_explore wrote: post #16

It's theoretically possible with USB-C to avoid the power MOSFET for the heater, and instead instruct the power supply to vary the voltage between 5v and 20v which should adjust the heat output by a factor of 16... Could be a neat way to make an ultra low cost iron...

USB type-c power delivery is 5 or 20V it’s not a variable voltage supply. Switching between the modes isn’t fast enough and if you do try to pulse modulate it you more likely than not to kill your power supply as they weren’t designed for that.

there is a Programmable Power Supply Mode (PPS) that was added[1] that lets a device dial in exactly what voltage it wants, as the parent comment said, no buck needed (assuming it's within current limit). it made sense to specify. variable output doesn't add much complexity, and it can reduce part count in the exact way we see herr- remove a voltage converter.

on the other hand, just a guess, but I'd guess well under half of supplies (wall & battery) have PPS support. just last month I went out & bought the pro version of the battery back I had been using: same size, same capacity, more expensive but it had PPS, which I wanted to play with (as a hobbyist), and can supply more watts (honestly not that important to me atm).

[1] https://www.pengohome.com/Learn_Detail.asp?LiD=D15D68D2FEB0F...

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#48

Post by rektide » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #44

mouldysammich wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soldering irons generally are not expensive. Antex which is a fairly reputable soldering iron brand (as far as i understand) sell them as low as 10$ on amazon

Dumb AC soldering irons don't have to be (unless you really care about temperature accuracy and ESD), portable gas soldering irons are also essentially glorified lighters. However when you get into a DC soldering irons you do start getting into complexity that isn't as cheap to do safely.

I'm skeptical of your skepticism. Monitoring temperature & adjusting current are tasks humanity has, in my view, gotten quite good at & made quite routine, safely & cheaply.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#49

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

rektide wrote: post #47

dogma1138 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB type-c power delivery is 5 or 20V it’s not a variable voltage supply. Switching between the modes isn’t fast enough and if you do try to pulse modulate it you more likely than not to kill your power supply as they weren’t designed for that.

there is a Programmable Power Supply Mode (PPS) that was added[1] that lets a device dial in exactly what voltage it wants, as the parent comment said, no buck needed (assuming it's within current limit). it made sense to specify. variable output doesn't add much complexity, and it can reduce part count in the exact way we see herr- remove a voltage converter. on the other hand, just a guess, but I'd guess well under…

>The PPS standard refers to the power supply can exchange data with the power supply every ten seconds, so that the power supply can dynamically adjust the output voltage and current according to the condition of the receiving product specifications.

This isn't suitable for this. In general you do not do any high frequency modulation in the power supply, this is not the component for that.

You put your capacitors and the switching required where it's needed more or less the supply can be constant.

Re: Pinecil: Portable USB-C RISC-V soldering iron

#50

Post by rektide » Tue, Nov 24, 2020, 8:10 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #49

rektide wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is a Programmable Power Supply Mode (PPS) that was added[1] that lets a device dial in exactly what voltage it wants, as the parent comment said, no buck needed (assuming it's within current limit). it made sense to specify. variable output doesn't add much complexity, and it can reduce part count in the exact way we see herr- remove a voltage converter. on the other hand, just a guess, but I'd guess well under…

>The PPS standard refers to the power supply can exchange data with the power supply every ten seconds, so that the power supply can dynamically adjust the output voltage and current according to the condition of the receiving product specifications. This isn't suitable for this. In general you do not do any high frequency modulation in the power supply, this is not the component for that. You put your capacitors and…

We can start the discussion on soldering irons, I guess.

There seem to be two main strategies. I'm not super well versed on the pro's & cons of each. A lot of soldering irons use a resistive heating element. Dump current in, get heat. Higher end soldering irons tend to use high frequency inductive heating. Hakko has a write up here[1].

Agreed that for a switching supply, PPS isn't going to help a lot. For a resistive soldering iron, a PPS capable USB power source would be very helpful. All that's needed is a control loop, to monitor temperature & adjust the asked for input voltage and/or current.

Honestly not sure what the Pinecil or the well known TS100 soldering iron are, resistive or RF inductive. It'd be great if they were RF inductive heating, & PPS wasn't helpful, as the much finer control would be great. I hadn't considered that they could be.

[1] https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx100.html