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Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

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Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under properties of capitalism: > Poverty, crime, violence. Anybody want to tell him?

Tell them what? Those certainly are properties of capitalism, which is fairly obvious when you look at any capitalist country.

I don't think that follows.

To conclude that these are properties of capitalism you need to examine both capitalist and non-capitalist societies and observe that capitalist societies exhibit poverty, crime and violence (true), and that non-capitalist societies don't (false).

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#42
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under properties of capitalism: > Poverty, crime, violence. Anybody want to tell him?

Tell them what? Those certainly are properties of capitalism, which is fairly obvious when you look at any capitalist country.

You see poverty, crime and violence in most countries.

There is no official ranking of capitalist countries, but the Heritage Foundation Index of Economic Freedom probably comes close: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

The top 3 countries are Singapore, Hong Kong and New Zealand. The bottom three are North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba.

I think violence is perhaps a bit more balanced; you see violence in Hong Kong and Venezuela, for example. And perhaps the crime rate is the same in North Korea and Singapore. But when it comes to poverty, it's pretty clear that you're better off in the countries at the top rather than the ones at the bottom.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#43
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped reading at this: "In today's world of capitalism and fascism no one thinks anymore about doing something without personal benefit, without expecting something in return. Complete selflessness and aim for the pure indiscriminatory long-term benefit of everyone is no longer even considered and if it appears by chance, it is laughed at and portrayed as stupidity. Technology that we are using every day is infec…

You think the only reason to point out problems in society is because a person has "an axe to grind and inflation of their own ego"? Do you think society is perfect then?

No, I just don't think altruism comes from people who present the world as bad so they can point out the great thing they are doing in contrast to that. There is definitely an underlying something to it and it's quite plainly obvious. Remember I was responding to someone else who noticed it too.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't mind violence even against people as long as it's only in games, movies etc. Never in real life. All people should be able to strictly tell apart games and reality, and then violence in games can actually be helpful to relieve the inherent need for violence in humans without hurting anyone. I used robots just to bring attention to pacifism and because I found it a nice replacement for demons, plus it…

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Seconding this.

OP, you and I disagree on at least one or two things. However, I respect the fact that you have very strong belief's and are willing to stick by them. I'd like to here more.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is satire, but if the author reads this, one first reading it really seems like they want to get people to hate them, but I don't think they do. ALso, they really shouldn't claim "Doom clone" when their game is, technically, much worse than doom in many ways, when one of their major arguments is other games are "made wrong".

I think this is unfair. Sure, the writing style is a bit over-stated, but ultimately it demonstrates that the author asked "why should I build this? does it contribute to society?" which are questions that I think aren't always at the fore front of software devs' minds. You don't have to agree with their conclusions, but I appreciate that this person is thinking about social impact when they write code, and that it a…

This person claims to be the only person making fully open non-trivial open source games.

They talk about how other open source games have a variety of insulting problems, while complaining they are going to get lots of insults. They claim, unlike other authors of open source games "they are offer the truth". I tend to get irritated when anyone claims to be the source of truth.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#46
post #41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell them what? Those certainly are properties of capitalism, which is fairly obvious when you look at any capitalist country.

I don't think that follows. To conclude that these are properties of capitalism you need to examine both capitalist and non-capitalist societies and observe that capitalist societies exhibit poverty, crime and violence (true), and that non-capitalist societies don't (false).

Not really. If I state that humans are mammals and one of their properties is that they need to breathe air, I'm under no obligation to demonstrate that there are mammals that don't breathe air. And nor does the existence of non-mammals that do breathe air invalidate my point.

But I understand your point that perhaps these are not necessarily inherent to Capitalism. I believe they are, as Capitalism structurally enforces inequality which inevitably leads to these things.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#47
post #46
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that follows. To conclude that these are properties of capitalism you need to examine both capitalist and non-capitalist societies and observe that capitalist societies exhibit poverty, crime and violence (true), and that non-capitalist societies don't (false).

Not really. If I state that humans are mammals and one of their properties is that they need to breathe air, I'm under no obligation to demonstrate that there are mammals that don't breathe air. And nor does the existence of non-mammals that do breathe air invalidate my point. But I understand your point that perhaps these are not necessarily inherent to Capitalism. I believe they are, as Capitalism structurally enfo…

> Capitalism structurally enforces inequality which inevitably leads to these things

That's of course nonsense. It's human nature that enforces inequality, which doesn't necessarily lead to crime and violence either because again - human nature does.

Every social animal displays hierarchical structures, that's just biology. I don't know why so many people hold the belief that humans are special somehow and above biology.

Every economical, political, and social system will result in some form of inequality, if only because education, training, and skill need to be rewarded unless of course, you are willing to trade fairness for equality.

Finally, crime and violence aren't the result of (economical) inequality. They are correlated, sure, but crime isn't limited to property crimes and most of the other crimes don't need inequality.

A crime after all is nothing more than an action, which is defined as being against the law. You can in principle get rid of all crime by abolishing the law...

A similar story applies to violence.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#48
post #47
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. If I state that humans are mammals and one of their properties is that they need to breathe air, I'm under no obligation to demonstrate that there are mammals that don't breathe air. And nor does the existence of non-mammals that do breathe air invalidate my point. But I understand your point that perhaps these are not necessarily inherent to Capitalism. I believe they are, as Capitalism structurally enfo…

> Capitalism structurally enforces inequality which inevitably leads to these things That's of course nonsense. It's human nature that enforces inequality, which doesn't necessarily lead to crime and violence either because again - human nature does. Every social animal displays hierarchical structures, that's just biology. I don't know why so many people hold the belief that humans are special somehow and above biol…

It's not nonsense at all, and nothing you wrote contradicts what I said. You can blame any human activity on "human nature". At one time human nature gave us the slave trade, but we still made slavery illegal. Calling it "human nature" doesn't mean there's nothing we can do about it.

When I say "structurally enforces", I mean that it amplifies the natural urge to have more, or do better, than someone else.

For example, we might say that someone with $100,000 is fairly comfortable. And perhaps someone who's more ambitious might have 10x their wealth. Or, let's be more generous: let's say 100x or even 1000x. That last would give you someone at $100,000,000 which most folk would agree is pretty wealthy.

Bit it's a bit much when you end up with someone who has 10,000,000x the comfortable persons wealth. That's not human nature: that's a structure set up to funnel the wealth that ordinary people have created, to a tiny number of individuals. And I see that as a problem even if you don't.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#49
post #48
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism structurally enforces inequality which inevitably leads to these things That's of course nonsense. It's human nature that enforces inequality, which doesn't necessarily lead to crime and violence either because again - human nature does. Every social animal displays hierarchical structures, that's just biology. I don't know why so many people hold the belief that humans are special somehow and above biol…

It's not nonsense at all, and nothing you wrote contradicts what I said. You can blame any human activity on "human nature". At one time human nature gave us the slave trade, but we still made slavery illegal. Calling it "human nature" doesn't mean there's nothing we can do about it. When I say "structurally enforces", I mean that it amplifies the natural urge to have more, or do better, than someone else. For exampl…

> Bit it's a bit much when you end up with someone who has 10,000,000x the comfortable persons wealth. That's not human nature: that's a structure set up to funnel the wealth that ordinary people have created, to a tiny number of individuals. And I see that as a problem even if you don't.

That is not enforced by capitalism, though. Capitalism isn't a single incarnation of an economic system, it's an entire landscape of systems. Crony capitalism isn't the be all and end all - just look at the Gini-coefficient worldwide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient); there are plenty of capitalist countries that do quite well.

> When I say "structurally enforces", I mean that it amplifies the natural urge to have more, or do better, than someone else.

And you base that assessment on what exactly? I happened to have experienced two worlds (communism and capitalism) first hand and I can tell you for a fact that no "amplification of urges" was necessary to have people striving to have more than others.

The main difference is that in communist countries common folk had no way of (legally) getting access to most consumer goods (apart from food and basic supplies).

Corruption, stealing (mostly public property, e.g. from state-owned factories or farms), moonlighting, and under-the-counter sales were the norm and overall everybody suffered the consequences of an economy of scarcity.

This however, didn't stop party officials, former squires, factory directors or high ranking government officials from owning big houses and villas, driving western cars, and having access to luxury goods that were unavailable to the general public (both domestic and imported from the West).

The main difference between capitalism and communism that I experienced are a higher standard of living (in capitalism), less corruption, actual opportunities for those who seek them and much less state sanctioned despotism.

There's downsides, too of course, but I live in a country where it's incredibly difficult (and somewhat frowned upon) to get obscenely rich and many of those that are inherited their wealth (something that could be easily fixed by 100% inheritance tax for sums exceeding some still generous threshold).

That's why I don't see mega-rich people as general problem with capitalism (it's more of a result of a global economy and financial markets anyway - the bulk of most billionaires' wealth is in stocks and options, not actual cash or physical possessions).

Just to give you some perspective on how "shit might go down": there was this guy, Markus Persson, who programmed a computer game that became the best selling computer game to date (200 million copies). He became a billionaire when he sold his company and the rights to the game in 2014.

Then there was this other bloke, John Carmack, who worked on 42 games and created genre-defining masterpieces like Doom. His games sold well, too, but he was 30 years too early and thus "only" became a millionaire (~$60 million).

The difference? Opportunity! Back in the early 1990s there was no internet and (PC) gaming was a niche.

I guess the lesson here is that the size of the market has changed and getting obscenely rich relatively quickly is easier than ever before. But that's just a direct consequence of the average person being wealthier than ever before and thre being more capital around.

Re: Anarch: Super small public domain no-dependency from-scratch suckless Doom clone

#50
post #3

This project is not exactly what it promises. The title is "portable suckless [...] 90s-style Doom clone", however, in the technical details, it's specified that "this is my custom engine (raycastlib) based on raycasting, a technique used in Wolf3D engine, but it's improved, e.g. supporting multiple levels of floor and ceiling, so that the visual result is something between Wolf3D and Doom". I don't think a that an i…

That seems a bit pedantic and a kinda negative, the whole thing read to me like a parody on the whole 'it's not a real machine unless someone's made doom run on it meme' and a homage to doom style games.

It didn't seem to me like it was taking a jab at modern games or anything too serious. Just someone having a bit of fun, bragging a bit and showing off their work.

Nothing to get so worked up about. It's a neat project, no need to let semantics get you worked up. It all just seems like it was made for fun and it's kind of impressive for what it is.

Not everything needs to be stern and serious.

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