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Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

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Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#41
post #24

So they saved next to nothing? Their yearly operating expenses are in the order of $1.3B, which doesn't even include cost of revenue. $75M savings versus $2600M operating expenses over those 2 years comes out to about 2.8% savings.

If you see it from the perspective of being able to retain staff or hiring new employees, it definitely seem worth it.

Except now you have to hire a staff to maintain and manage hardware, batteries, generators, buildings, security?

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#42
post #24

So they saved next to nothing? Their yearly operating expenses are in the order of $1.3B, which doesn't even include cost of revenue. $75M savings versus $2600M operating expenses over those 2 years comes out to about 2.8% savings.

That's objectively still a lot of money that can pay for a lot of things.

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#43
We are a startup. We decided to host our full stack in self managed vpses running debian. We started at one provider, but because we have everything (except the hardware) under our own super vision, we were able to move to another provider (hetzner) in just a few days. Moving away to another provider wouldn't be an issue. I believe the key is to not use any of the propitiatory services offered by all these big players. We currently pay around 1000 dollars a month for about 15 servers. Same thing at AWS will cost at least 1 week to figure out the pricing model and probably six phone calls with sales people trying to lock you in. Then in the end I am sure you would pay much much more.

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#44
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are not a lot of those companies which are that big. You also might not want to manage that many it experts for your infrastructure or you are not able to get them. Also if your companies product is very technical, i would argue that those companies are much better equiped doing it by themselfs then others. Nonetheless, it also doesn't need to be all or nothing. You can easily combine a MultiCloud approach. Bui…

> Nonetheless, it also doesn't need to be all or nothing. You can easily combine a MultiCloud approach. There may be reasons to go multicloud but ease isn’t one of them. You double your infra support overhead (or more likely, half its quality) and have a “least common denominator” experience. The natural tendencies of large organizations is a diffusion of investment but the cheapest costs frequently come from a conce…

Bigger you are bigger the differences between teams and products and projects.

You can leverage the high quality network infrastructure from Google while using your own DC for Compute Heavy Load.

Use Azure for your Windows specific workloads.

Go with AliCloud in China.

You need to be big enough so that running it yourself is doable with a certain amount of quality. Which does imply many teams and workloads.

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#45

We are a startup. We decided to host our full stack in self managed vpses running debian. We started at one provider, but because we have everything (except the hardware) under our own super vision, we were able to move to another provider (hetzner) in just a few days. Moving away to another provider wouldn't be an issue. I believe the key is to not use any of the propitiatory services offered by all these big player…

What are the size of the servers?

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#46
post #24

So they saved next to nothing? Their yearly operating expenses are in the order of $1.3B, which doesn't even include cost of revenue. $75M savings versus $2600M operating expenses over those 2 years comes out to about 2.8% savings.

> So they saved next to nothing? Their yearly operating expenses are in the order of $1.3B, which doesn't even include cost of revenue.

Wow thank god some of y'all aren't running these businesses.

It still surprises me every time I see failures to think marginally.

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#47
post #2

Does anyone know what the break-even point is for building/managing your own infrastructure, vs. using cloud services? I'm also curious - what's the rough time/cost of moving to your own infrastructure? I'm sure it depends on lots of things, but looking for a ballpark. 1 year + 10 engineers? 5 years + 100 engineers?

Part of the problem is at smaller companies, managing your own infrastructure is just a part time job. So you have to outsource it to someone you trust, find someone in your company that wants to moonlight as a sysadmin for 10-20 minutes/day, or pay a full time employee to not do that much.

How much time you have to spend is generally related to how many servers you have. In my experience, if you have automation setup correctly (1-2 weeks) you can average around 5 hours per month to manage about 30 servers.

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#48

"Cloud" handles the problem of people who buy based on who takes them out to lunch, buy based on wanting to have bragging rights, buy based on the idea that "nobody ever got fired for buying Dell / HP / whatever". Sure, you can buy and colocate a dual processor Xeon Platinum bought from Dell, but when you can get significantly more than twice the performance per dollar buying an Epyc system, it's stupid to do it. Sto…

What makes you think Amazon and Microsoft don't take customers out to lunch (pre-covid)?

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#49
The thing is, Dropbox talent level is probably quite high. Thus, they can build a lot of internal APIs to manage their own hardware (Think: Software Defined Networking, Kubernetes, lambda-like platform, programatic scheduler, etc).

If you don't have people who can provide cloud-like APIs to developers to self-serve, then you are trading off your developer time with money. And I'd argue that is a terrible trade off.

Re: Dropbox saved $75M over two years by building its own infrastructure (2018)

#50
Dropbox is competing in a narrow-margin market wherein those margins are a function of hosting costs. At the unit cost level, it's material to their business.

Pfizer, where IT is a minor backoffice operation, doesn't care that 'everything is 2x the cost' because that cost is materially small, and the nimble nature of the cloud is a much bigger advantage. And they don't have the talent to make their own cloud anyhow. So to them it's cheaper.

Also note that most cloud users are not startups or tech companies, they are 'basic corps' doing IT.

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