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Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

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Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#41

Post by colinmhayes »

samspenc wrote: post #3

This is a good question: should news media like NYT report news without any political biases? Or is it OK for them to pick a side while reporting (progressive, liberal vs conservative etc). If it is OK for media to report news with a bias, then will that accelerate the echo chambers across the political spectrum where news media only report on angles they favor? Just wanted to raise this for discussion.

I think the times does ok at having some conservative pieces to balance out. They got a bit unlucky in all their republican columnists, Brooks and Douthat in particular, being never trumpers, but they try to throw in some pro trump op-eds.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#42

Post by pdonis »

IgorPartola wrote: post #19
damnencryption wrote: post #7

I have a simpler explanation for media failure. Huge job cuts. Many journalists are now doing work of multiple positions in many places especially online media. New York Times has reduced the number of their total editors in the last 10 years for example. Every major online media had layoffs comparable to 10% of their total workforce in the last 5 years. It affects mid level journalists the most so there are more int…

It occurs to me that as we become more and more connected globally the less there will be a need for the media. Hear me out: let’s take this to the limit of our ability to communicate. Let’s say that we develop a direct interface between the brain and the Internet via some sort of implantable chip. Any information you want to know becomes instantly knowable in your brain. Moreover, you can request info about certain…

> And of course all the information is gathered in aggregators that automatically verify that multiple people did witness the particular event to verify authenticity.

In other words, "and then a miracle occurs". I don't see how this requirement could ever be met in general. For particular cases (like first responders at an emergency being able to directly feed what they are seeing and doing), perhaps.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#43

Post by ausbah »

IgorPartola wrote: post #19
damnencryption wrote: post #7

I have a simpler explanation for media failure. Huge job cuts. Many journalists are now doing work of multiple positions in many places especially online media. New York Times has reduced the number of their total editors in the last 10 years for example. Every major online media had layoffs comparable to 10% of their total workforce in the last 5 years. It affects mid level journalists the most so there are more int…

It occurs to me that as we become more and more connected globally the less there will be a need for the media. Hear me out: let’s take this to the limit of our ability to communicate. Let’s say that we develop a direct interface between the brain and the Internet via some sort of implantable chip. Any information you want to know becomes instantly knowable in your brain. Moreover, you can request info about certain…

giving everyone a platform is a noble goal from some perspectives, but is it also what makes up the worse parts of platforms like Reddit, Twitter, and YouTube. suddenly every crackpot and grifter has been given room to spread their garbage opinions and views. just look at the massive disinformation and radicalization pipelines that have popped up. letting people beam info right into their heads would only make this issue worse.

I'm am not trying to say gatekeeping information platforms would solve this or is even morally correct - I am just trying to demonstrate the downsides of such a system that lets the floodgates open to content creation with lax moderation. if you want some semblance of truth and accuracy in the media people consume, it doesn't hurt to have some bounds on what is an acceptable source of news (again with caveats)

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#44

Post by Veen »

samspenc wrote: post #3

This is a good question: should news media like NYT report news without any political biases? Or is it OK for them to pick a side while reporting (progressive, liberal vs conservative etc). If it is OK for media to report news with a bias, then will that accelerate the echo chambers across the political spectrum where news media only report on angles they favor? Just wanted to raise this for discussion.

We all have bias and there is no point in denying it. But that shouldn't stop people in professions like journalism aiming for independence and neutrality. People can be honest and intellectually honest, follow the evidence and logic impartially, in spite of their biases. The problem comes where they see their role as something different; then they become propagandists and political partisans who hide behind their supposed impartiality.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#45

Post by tathougies »

IgorPartola wrote: post #32
_fq4v wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known t…

Do I really need to point you towards the Trump lie tracker? I am only exaggerating a little when I say that if he says ten words, he emits 11 lies.

Nice dodge of the question! I cited specific examples of ludicrous things he's said that have come true, and you cite small lies he's told. I can do the same for any politician you name, that doesn't mean they never say something worth listening to.

Like I said though... Keep going. People like you have converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter. And people like you have converted my aunt, a former Obama-supporting liberal, into avid pro-Trumpers. Honestly, from my perspective, I say keep going on and do whatever it is you do. It'll just make more people like me.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#46

Post by tarlinian »

_fq4v wrote: post #31
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing anti-Trump bias with telling the truth. Trump being a pathological liar means that any given story about him will sound bad. Example: “Trump said today he is still under audit and unable to release his tax returns. Of course there is zero reason why being under audit would prevent someone from releasing their tax returns and the most likely explanation is that there is evidence of tax fraud that can…

Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known t…

The implication of working coronavirus vaccine by end of October was that it would be available for use (you can find quotes from the Trump administration saying they were working on distribution of hundreds of millions of doses by the end of the month), not that there would be a preliminary report from a still ongoing trial indicating that the vaccine works.

The Steele dossier includes information from Russian sources. It was not "paid for" by Russia.

No one has argued that Hunter Biden was not being paid because he was a Biden. The question was whether it led to improper behavior on the part of Joe Biden. That email proves nothing. It's entirely plausible that Hunter Biden got this guy an invite to some social function where shook hands with the Vice President. This is also entirely ignoring the fact that the firing of the prosecutor wasn't some sort of one off idea that Biden came up with on his own. There are independent speeches by all sorts of people from 6 years ago that complain about the corruption of the prosecutor in question, which makes this whole point moot. The prosecutor was fired for not investigating the company that hired Hunter Biden.

Like most liars, Trump isn't inventing everything out of thin air, but he misrepresents so often and so much that you can't draw any useful conclusions from anything he says.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#47

Post by titanomachy »

colinmhayes wrote: post #39
huy-nguyen wrote: post #33

I still highly respect NYT but I agree that the tone of its headlines (if not the actual article text) in general has gotten more sensationalized over time. I now read both NYT and the news section of WSJ to get a more balanced perspective (I steer clear of the opinion section of WSJ because it's a total dumpster fire).

If you're ever looking to absolutely lose all faith in humanity the journal's comment section is even better than facebook. Never thought I'd see the day where someone unironically says "LIBERAL NOONAN"

I would have expected the $40/month price tag for the WSJ to be a more effective filter. I guess there's plenty of racist-grandpa types happy to shell out the cash.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#48

Post by d1zzy »

_fq4v wrote: post #31
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing anti-Trump bias with telling the truth. Trump being a pathological liar means that any given story about him will sound bad. Example: “Trump said today he is still under audit and unable to release his tax returns. Of course there is zero reason why being under audit would prevent someone from releasing their tax returns and the most likely explanation is that there is evidence of tax fraud that can…

Okay, sure, Trump misrepresented that maybe -- although his tax returns are typical of someone with lots of depreciable real estate, and don't have much evidence of fraud. But let's talk about other so-called trump 'lies'. What about the continued doubts by the NYT that there would soon be news about a working coronavirus vaccine at the end of October, early November? What about the Steele Dossier that is now known t…

Just look at the blatant lies he said about COVID19, it's laughable if the consequences wouldn't be so serious and tragic. Yes, politicians do lie (mostly in terms of vague while being up for election), but that doesn't mean Trump lying and other politicians lying are similar. I haven't seen other first world leaders state, without a doubt, that the COVID19 virus is a hoax, it's not real and all the other crap Trump espoused in regards to COVID.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#49

Post by dragonwriter »

tathougies wrote: post #45
IgorPartola wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I really need to point you towards the Trump lie tracker? I am only exaggerating a little when I say that if he says ten words, he emits 11 lies.

Nice dodge of the question! I cited specific examples of ludicrous things he's said that have come true, and you cite small lies he's told. I can do the same for any politician you name, that doesn't mean they never say something worth listening to. Like I said though... Keep going. People like you have converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter. And people like you have converted my aunt, a former Obama-…

> You've converted me from a never Trumper to a Trump supporter.

You've been echoing Trump talking points and explicitly defending Trump here for months.

That's the kind of dishonest rhetorical trick that works better when the history isn't readily visible.

Re: Times Change: Inside the New York Times’ Heated Reckoning With Itself

#50

Post by [deleted] »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #36

Oh the circumlocutions of woke centrists... NYT's slant is currently ammo for "class reductionists"[1], but if they were to enage in some of the dirtbag left stuff of the sort that Putin likes to sponsor, they could make the MSNBC Moms uncomfortable from both sides of the political spectrum (!), and antipodal-ly restore some bipartisan credibility. [1]: https://www.salon.com/2020/07/25/how-calling-someone-a-class...…

[deleted]
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