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The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

greenwald.substack.com

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Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#41

Post by dudul »

sukilot wrote: post #27
dudul wrote: post #21

I'm actually much more bothered by the fact that people can start voting 1 month before the actual election day, or that votes can be counted and communicated before the election day. Before moving to the US, I voted a few times in a different country where the rules were simple: one election day and absolutely no polls/estimations/etc communicated in the media during the last 48 hours before the election day.

> start voting 1 month before the actual election day, Letting people vote is the foundation of democracy. > votes can be counted and communicated Where does this happen? > absolutely no polls/estimations/etc communicated in the media during the last 48 hours before the election day. For what benefit?

For the benefit of letting people think about their choice without being bombarded with numbers, political ads, etc.

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#43

Post by milquetoastaf »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #35
davidw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of his writing is FUD lately.

Concern and worry about left-leaning "journalists" censoring a newstory (a newstory that, had it happened to the other political party, would have been all over the news in an instant and would be covered for weeks on end) is FUD? Yup, keep downvoting me retards because I want a free and objective press. You've destroyed this website, hope you're happy.

What's the story? That Hunter Biden smoked crack and got a footjob? The NYT, WaPo, and Wall Street Journal all reported on the supposed connections in the emails tying Joe into this and all came up with little to no evidence of any wrongdoing, fraud, or conspiracy. Glenn's (former) editor points this out to him and then Glenn cites the Daily Caller, which is hardly a reputable source.

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#45

Post by tmaly »

tyingq wrote: post #2

I'm not particularly bothered that it might take another day or two for all the votes to be counted. I'd much rather have the devil I know than a bunch of automation and technology that might have bigger issues. Since it's not nationally controlled, and each US state (and county) can do what it wants, a big push to use tech is almost sure to backfire. And backfire in ways that aren't immediately obvious.

Even if tech has bigger issues, I would still like to see the certified election board results from each district posted to the blockchain. It would be a nice parallel way for the general public to get the actually results.

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#46

Post by cameronh90 »

vonmoltke wrote: post #29
salicideblock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think this is about a tradeoff between time and reliability. Other developed countries have, for decades, reliably given results within hours of polls closing, without "automation or obscure technology". Time to results is a factor in the credibility of the results, just as auditability and transparency. International election observers regularly raise concerns about protracted and drawn out election c…

> Other developed countries have, for decades, reliably given results within hours of polls closing, without "automation or obscure technology". How do these other countries handle mail-in ballots? In most (maybe all) US states, a ballot postmarked on election day is valid as long as it is received by some specific point (usually Friday) after election day. Thus, in the US there are an undetermined number of valid vo…

Those rules just sound like a bad idea that should be changed.

In the UK at least, it needs to be with your local authority by 10PM on polling day. If you fail to send it in time, you can just bring it down manually instead.

(aside: I am generally opposed to postal voting. Postal vote seems even more prone to abuse than remote electronic voting.)

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#47

Post by eli »

tyingq wrote: post #2

I'm not particularly bothered that it might take another day or two for all the votes to be counted. I'd much rather have the devil I know than a bunch of automation and technology that might have bigger issues. Since it's not nationally controlled, and each US state (and county) can do what it wants, a big push to use tech is almost sure to backfire. And backfire in ways that aren't immediately obvious.

There actually WAS a big push/requirement for states to adopt new tech after the 2000 election. https://www.eac.gov/about_the_eac/help_america_vote_act.aspx

Certainly not perfect but I think we can all be glad there aren't any "hanging chad" punchcards or un-auditable lever machines to worry about this election.

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#48

Post by disgu »

vonmoltke wrote: post #29
salicideblock wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think this is about a tradeoff between time and reliability. Other developed countries have, for decades, reliably given results within hours of polls closing, without "automation or obscure technology". Time to results is a factor in the credibility of the results, just as auditability and transparency. International election observers regularly raise concerns about protracted and drawn out election c…

> Other developed countries have, for decades, reliably given results within hours of polls closing, without "automation or obscure technology". How do these other countries handle mail-in ballots? In most (maybe all) US states, a ballot postmarked on election day is valid as long as it is received by some specific point (usually Friday) after election day. Thus, in the US there are an undetermined number of valid vo…

Germany: Every person over the age of 18 is automatically registered to vote. The right to vote cannot be lost.

Every registered voter gets a letter some time before the election and if you want to vote by mail you have to send the letter back for free and they'll send everything over. The ballots have to be received by the end of the day of election. There's a lot of time so you won't miss that date. The letter you get to remind you of voting also contains information about where you have to be to vote in person.

There's very little last minute changes in Germany. The election is not decided in the last couple of weeks before the election, people have made up their minds at that point.

I think the crucial part is that there's absolutely no effort involved. You basically show up at the polling place on the Sunday of the election and you're good to go. If you're too lazy for that you can to everything by mail. If you decide to vote by mail and then forget to send it via the post you can just drop it off at the polling station as well.

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#49

Post by Certhas »

tyingq wrote: post #2

I'm not particularly bothered that it might take another day or two for all the votes to be counted. I'd much rather have the devil I know than a bunch of automation and technology that might have bigger issues. Since it's not nationally controlled, and each US state (and county) can do what it wants, a big push to use tech is almost sure to backfire. And backfire in ways that aren't immediately obvious.

Just to give you a feel of what is actually possible in a well run election: Germany (80 Million people) has a fully manual (all paper ballots, no voting machines or automatic tallying) and fully witnessed official result on election night. This count is then checked and certified as final a few days later (discrepancies are rare and small). People don't have to wait in line to vote. And voting happens on Sunday, which is a mandatory day off for the vast majority of people.

Re: The U.S. Inability to Count Votes Is a National Disgrace. and Dangerous

#50

Post by eli »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #36

A member of the news media should know better than to complain about the vote tallies flipping overnight. We've known for weeks that it was likely for several states to flip like this because these states were not allowed to count the mail-in ballots as they came in. In the states where it was allowed to count votes early, the vote tally was released last night, in similar speed to his example of Brazil. What's reall…

Sadly, I think he does know better.
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