Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release) • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#41

Post by cooldeal » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:06 PM UTC

pieter wrote: post #2

5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data? No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data I hate it when companies use 'encrypted' like it would somehow make your data more secure in their hands. They mean here they use something like SSL so snooping the traffic is impossible, but of course they can still read what…

>EDIT: come on HN, since when did we start downvoting stuff you don't want to hear? This is a valid point, if you have critizism just leave a comment. If you want to downvote something, do it on the summary comments. Sheesh.

You must be new to HN, any post that can be construed as criticizing Apple, whether legitimate or not will either be ignored or downvoted. On the other hand, anything justifying Apple's actions, whether true or not will be heavily upvoted.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#42

Post by tjogin » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:07 PM UTC

8. What other location data is Apple collecting from the iPhone besides crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data? Apple is now collecting anonymous traffic data to build a crowd-sourced traffic database with the goal of providing iPhone users an improved traffic service in the next couple of years.

Interesting. Apple generally does not pre-release information about upcoming products, at all. They must have felt their hand forced in this, or Jobs is not at the helm of this press release (which I'm sure he is).

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#43

Post by ugh » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:07 PM UTC

pieter wrote: post #32

ugh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's why they say "anonymous". If they do not delete the IP address as soon as technically possible they are lying about the anonymous part. This is not about ability. This is about trust. They say the data is anonymous which means they are obligated to disregard the IP address and to not log it anywhere.

"This is not about ability" Sure it is. That's exactly what the following statement means: "Apple cannot identify the source of this data". How can you interpret that as anything else but their ability of identifying the source? The statement is obviously not true; if they were forced to, by a government agency for example, to track the location information from a user from that point on they COULD; saying they can't…

If you want to be super petty about it, sure. I don't think that sentence is supposed to be read that way.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#44

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:07 PM UTC

packetlss wrote: post #35

So it was a bug after all. This was one of the best responses out of a big corporation I've seen in ages. They even explain the function of it, not often that you see that.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#45

Post by sounddust » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:09 PM UTC

diminish wrote: post #31

sounddust wrote: post #16

I often travel internationally (with no data roaming) and I've noticed that the iPhone's A-GPS is incapable of determining my location when I arrive in a new place, even if I've pre-loaded my route/maps in the maps application prior to arrival. But once I've connected to the internet - even for a few seconds - my phone is permanently able to track itself in that city, even after I've left and returned months later. I…

your need is too exotic and mainstream concerns about location/timestamp tracking on iphone are real, valid concerns.

It's a common scenario in Europe. It's not "exotic" to take a €39 train ride from Paris to Brussels to visit for the weekend.

I don't think it's a privacy concern to store such data locally on the phone. In any case, it should be resolved by letting the user decide how long to cache the data; that would make everyone happy.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#46

Post by uwsnyc » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:11 PM UTC

sklivvz1971 wrote: post #3

3. Why is my iPhone logging my location? The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested This actually makes sense - looking at the logs on my iPhone and iPad, the lo…

So - while your current location isn't logged, enough data is logged to derive your current location?

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#47

Post by cooldeal » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:11 PM UTC

sklivvz1971 wrote: post #3

3. Why is my iPhone logging my location? The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested This actually makes sense - looking at the logs on my iPhone and iPad, the lo…

>and actually there was a very great deal of places where I've never been, not even close.

How does that make sense? It should only cache the locations of cell phone towers it was in the range of. Are you seeing data that was more than 100 miles away from the places you were at?

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#48

Post by recoiledsnake » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:16 PM UTC

tjogin wrote: post #42

8. What other location data is Apple collecting from the iPhone besides crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data? Apple is now collecting anonymous traffic data to build a crowd-sourced traffic database with the goal of providing iPhone users an improved traffic service in the next couple of years. Interesting. Apple generally does not pre-release information about upcoming products, at all. They must have fel…

The government got involved and there were going to be congressional hearings with Apple and Google representatives over this.

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#49

Post by sudonim » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:18 PM UTC

"The reason the iPhone stores so much data is a bug we uncovered and plan to fix shortly"

A bug _you_ uncovered?

Re: Apple Q&A on gathering and use of location data (Apple Press Release)

#50

Post by mrcharles » Wed, Apr 27, 2011, 2:18 PM UTC

tjogin wrote: post #42

8. What other location data is Apple collecting from the iPhone besides crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data? Apple is now collecting anonymous traffic data to build a crowd-sourced traffic database with the goal of providing iPhone users an improved traffic service in the next couple of years. Interesting. Apple generally does not pre-release information about upcoming products, at all. They must have fel…

IMO the most interesting thing -- I was just daydreaming on the way to work of a mapping app that basically tracked your route, and compared timestamps of movement against expected times to generate an accurate realtime traffic map when shared with a central server.

The problem with traffic info right now is that it's always either laughably late (see sirius/xm traffic info) or it's based on eyes-in-the-sky style updates from radio, which you can only get every period of time.