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Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

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Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#41

Post by zwischenzug »

raghava wrote: post #23
zwischenzug wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, what?

I was merely remarking upon the fact that your comment classified all Indians in one category, that of folks who mug up jargon, acronyms and definitions but are not really knowledgeable about the actual usage. However, let me assure you, not all Indians are like that. There are Indians with reasonable thoughts and rational curiosity. In all your interactions you might not have seen such kind, that's certainly unfortu…

Indeed, that's why I didn't say: "all Indians are like this". It's just surprising how many graduates from Indian universities seem to be completely uneducated in a broader sense. It makes one realise the value of (or problems arising from) common unspoken assumptions.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#42

Post by zwischenzug »

microarchitect wrote: post #21
zwischenzug wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the lack of education in the broader sense. I weed so many out in interview with simple comprehension questions. The trouble is that their education system and culture does them such a disservice that it's hard to spot the good ones in amongst the dross.

I'm not sure why you think it's question of culture. There are plenty of people of Indian origin in the US who have fairly strong ties to Indian culture, but I've never heard any complaints about them being unable to understand stuff.

They were raised in the US?

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#44

Post by ignifero »

Stormbringer wrote: post #39
ignifero wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a matter of opportunity. People in the US consider opportunity a given. It's not so in most of the world, people may choose to educate themselves, even forcibly via repetition, because there may not even be other things to do, and it's better to have some kind of education than no education. The exceptional kids of course do not follow that rule, they'll make it no matter what.

To say that there is no opportunity in places like Brazil and India is to blame someone else for your not taking the initiative. Even in the UK and US the vast majority of the students don't really take advantage of the education system. And those who do are often ridiculed by those that don't. There is just as much pressure to slack off and underperform in the west as there is to do rote memorisation in Brazil or to…

That's what i'm saying, the real smart guys know better. I said opportunities are not as abudant as in the US, not that there's none of them (at some point the reverse will be true) . But it's also true that in the emerging economies there is state-sponsored push towards higher education coupled with the rise of the middle classes which leads to these phenomena. You do find disinterested students more often in countries where people don't have an incentive to quit university and pursue their real talents. Unfortunately this leads to lower quality of education. On the flip side, thanks to the internet there's a whole world of information out there readily available to anyone who cares.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#45

Post by kunalb »

microarchitect wrote: post #8

The problem boils down to just one thing. The teachers don't understand what they're teaching themselves, so they confuse memorization and repetition with learning. The students who are good at this are rewarded because they do better in the exams, and slowly but surely all the joy of understanding science is beaten out of a student. I can relate to this personally. Until I started college, I really understood what I…

Allow me to clear up one tiny misconception—the professors and the way the syllabus is taught at IITs (at least D) is not that much better either—a large of my part of my syllabus in solid mechanics, etc. (just to name a specific example) was simply glossed over as facts to ingest without even touching the mathematical foundation. I've had to spend a really large part of my final year project revisiting maths, solid mechanics to get that foundation and then build upon it to make a good project.

There have also been particularly memorable incidents where a professor teaching surveying got confused about what sin\theta was.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#46

Post by olh »

Brazilian CS undergrad here. Although this is a 50's view, some aspects are still valid.

I study in a technical park inside one of the biggest hydroelectric dams in the world. Some of my professors are renowned engineers working in the dam; but many others are unqualified and became professors just by passing an admission test.

The thing is: my university is public and once you are in, as a professor or student, you will only get out if you decide so or if you do something seriously unethical.

So, as a professor, if you are in, you can do almost whatever you want: you won't be fired. You can produce shitty research papers because you do not need to have "results" like in the private sector; and it's the same for the teaching.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#48

Post by espeed »

microarchitect wrote: post #8

The problem boils down to just one thing. The teachers don't understand what they're teaching themselves, so they confuse memorization and repetition with learning. The students who are good at this are rewarded because they do better in the exams, and slowly but surely all the joy of understanding science is beaten out of a student. I can relate to this personally. Until I started college, I really understood what I…

There is a big difference between knowing something is true and understanding why it's true. A criteria one of the top preparatory schools in Dallas looks for when evaluating candidates for admittance is, does the student ask "Why?".

When you understand why something is true -- the reasons behind it -- you are relating it/connecting it to what you already know and understand. You're creating a Web of associations -- a mental framework you can build on -- you're not learning it in isolation. The most important question anyone can ask is "Why?".

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#49

Post by Symbiont »

olh wrote: post #46

Brazilian CS undergrad here. Although this is a 50's view, some aspects are still valid. I study in a technical park inside one of the biggest hydroelectric dams in the world. Some of my professors are renowned engineers working in the dam; but many others are unqualified and became professors just by passing an admission test. The thing is: my university is public and once you are in, as a professor or student, you…

Another brazilian CS undergrad here. Sadly, I can vouch for what olh said.. In some worst cases, teachers at public universities decide not to show up at classes.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#50

Post by [deleted] »

Symbiont wrote: post #49
olh wrote: post #46

Brazilian CS undergrad here. Although this is a 50's view, some aspects are still valid. I study in a technical park inside one of the biggest hydroelectric dams in the world. Some of my professors are renowned engineers working in the dam; but many others are unqualified and became professors just by passing an admission test. The thing is: my university is public and once you are in, as a professor or student, you…

Another brazilian CS undergrad here. Sadly, I can vouch for what olh said.. In some worst cases, teachers at public universities decide not to show up at classes.

[deleted]
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