Live data from Hacker News

Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

twitter.com

41–50 of 149 posts

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#41
post #8

Buy gold.

If CBDC issuance coincides with banning physical cash, what makes you think that they won't enforce capital controls on alternative currencies?

There is a universe of alternative currencies. If people truly start trading gold its not going to stop until they barter in peas or clams

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#42
post #23

one frightening prediction I've heard is that we will have parallel economies. One for UBI consumer serfs who receive a monthly stipend that expires at the end of each month, another for people who work and receive payment perhaps in other independent currencies, and another, which already exists, for the very wealthy who hold wealth primarily in tangible assets like real estate and fine art. This will either fail sp…

What do you expect when governments do everything in their power to penalize savers and make debt ever easier to obtain and service? Delayed gratification and sacrifice are anathema to the government. Individuals with long time horizons and the ability to acquire assets will continue to get more and more wealth while marginal people suffer.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#43
post #29
post #18

Are these proposed central bank “digital currencies” anything more than a centralised or federalised database of who-owns-how-many? And if so, how does that differ from what we have now? That is, in a European country, I have an account with my bank, and my bank has an account with the central bank (or the two interact in some other way). My understanding of the current system is limited, I merely know some large por…

I can half answer that and hope somebody can complete the story. What you have in your bank account is not digital cash. It's effectively a note that the bank owes you cash. This may sound like a technical detail but as far as I understood without physical money there would be no bank accounts. That's what I always wondered about: how could an economy go 100 percent electronic banking, if banking is built on the exis…

Bitcoin is not 'electronic cash' as you define it here - it's a shared ledger - there are no coins. The only difference with a current account at your bank is central ledger vs distributed consensus ledger.

Also why would a bank require physical cash? Banking is based on savings and loans, debt and credit, not cash. The money in your bank account is not backed by real coins somewhere in a vault.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#44
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the current system as you describe is a two-level system with your bank in between; a CBDC allows you to "have an account" directly with the central bank directly and make/receive payments without needing a retail bank intermediary. It also enables central banks to achieve policy goals that they could not earlier - for example, in the last big crisis all the quantitative easing did not result in as much actual…

I see. But then again I am a bit confused by this text in the report on digital euro[0], which was recently posted on HN. “While the Eurosystem would always retain control over the issuance of a digital euro, supervised private intermediaries would be best placed to provide ancillary, user-facing services and to build new business models on its core back-end functionality. A model whereby access to the digital euro i…

Accounts at central banks is only one model of CBDC, called Direct CBDC, which is to my knowledge much less preferred way than a hybrid apparoach (like what’s there today), for several reasons: - managing a complexity of nation-wide banking for Central Banks is quite early at this stage, being a traditionally a government portion known mostly for policies and economics than cutting edge tech deployment. - CBs want to keep stability, and breaking down a current model of banking by introduction of a new FIAT model is not one of them

There are key needs and major requirements additionally for the CBDC that are documented in the latest BIS and ECB reports.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#45
It may come across as snark, but I happen to believe this quote of Bill Hicks truly captures most of my thoughts on the subject.

“Rock stars against drugs – that's what we want, isn't it? Government-approved rock-n-roll? Woo! We're partying now!”

The entire reason for crypto is the already ridiculous level of control exerted over various gatekeepers. How do I know? I am part of the system.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#46

European banks recently started toying with the idea of passing down negative interest rates to customer bank deposits, so that banks are less squeezed by reserves yielding negative returns (breaking the typical bank business model). Just think, if CBDCs pass down the negative interest rates to everyone's cash, inside or outside of banks. That's not a currency I would be happy to hold.

I did not hear of this, but this is interesting. Doubly so given that in the old country, you are required to have a bank account to run a business ( as I understand it, that requirement technically does not exist in US -- technically ). So now apart from fees that require specific amount of balance, negative interest rate will ensure people won't hold too much.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#47
post #27

But all of these CB backed digital currencies aren’t like crypto. CBs will presumably be roots of trust and just maintain entries in a normal database.

Well, perhaps CBDC folks have learned a lot from Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, mostly on scaling and security, so literally not a database but abstract-wise a ledger like cryptos with different consensus and payment model.

CBDCs today are mostly based on trusted nodes, e.g. CBs and Banks, with the goal of transforming the current monetary “backend” into a digital automated way without losing the control. Think of it as breaking a monolith into a microservice world, which offers “innovation” and lower barrier to entry (underbanked) among other features.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#48
post #23

one frightening prediction I've heard is that we will have parallel economies. One for UBI consumer serfs who receive a monthly stipend that expires at the end of each month, another for people who work and receive payment perhaps in other independent currencies, and another, which already exists, for the very wealthy who hold wealth primarily in tangible assets like real estate and fine art. This will either fail sp…

California already has laws for creating landed gentry (prop 13 inheritance)

And now Google is going to be leasing land to its employees. Which I find terrifying

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#49
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the current system as you describe is a two-level system with your bank in between; a CBDC allows you to "have an account" directly with the central bank directly and make/receive payments without needing a retail bank intermediary. It also enables central banks to achieve policy goals that they could not earlier - for example, in the last big crisis all the quantitative easing did not result in as much actual…

Hmmm, wouldn't the CBDC be safer than any other place to put your money? So in a crisis, wouldn't you sell everything and put it in the CBDC including potentially government bonds precisely at the time the government probably needs to borrow cheaply? That seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

Indeed, financial stability and crisis models are the transformation studies several central banks and also stablecoins like Celo undertake to understand how introduction a new monetary instrument would solve some issues and affect others. Short answer is it’s too early to say since it’s a tech-push innovation sped up by demand-push of pandemic and global players.

Re: Central Bank Digital Currencies are coming

#50

European banks recently started toying with the idea of passing down negative interest rates to customer bank deposits, so that banks are less squeezed by reserves yielding negative returns (breaking the typical bank business model). Just think, if CBDCs pass down the negative interest rates to everyone's cash, inside or outside of banks. That's not a currency I would be happy to hold.

I think I read somewhere an Austrian bank is already charging negative interest rates on customer accounts (-0.5% IIRC).
Post reply on HN