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PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

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Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#41

Post by Proziam »

alehul wrote: post #19
jagged-chisel wrote: post #4

You'd think if it had stopped any attacks, the program's proponents would be shouting it from the rooftops. But no- nothing. Not even attempts to lie ("oh, we stopped several attacks, but we can't tell you anything about them...") PRISM is a phenomenal waste of trust and money.

I have, maybe naively, always believed that the U.S. operates at a level of secrecy and complexity where dozens of terrorist attacks are thwarted every year, and that this surveillance plays a hand in it (but to admit that would hinder its effectiveness). Is it really possible we only have Maybe it is possible, in which case the U.S. has been very successful at convincing my generation it's a larger issue than it rea…

> Is it really possible we only have That depends on your definition. If you're talking about organized 9/11 style attacks, absolutely. It's hard to bring plans like that together no matter how strong your convictions. If you're talking "random mentally ill person unleashes devastation on a group of US citizens" then no, there's certainly far more. That said, situations like that are best handled by local authorities. The Stoneman Douglas High School shooting is a prime example of that because as the story unraveled it became clear that the shooter had a history that was well known to the local police (and FBI if I recall?).

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#44

Post by MarcellusDrum »

ianbutler wrote: post #5

No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secret warrants, founded on a dubious premise that over the last 20 years have largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. This is a system designed to protect the larger system from any civs who may be getti…

The "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad.

Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1]

An good example he used to show this is the condition the fighters get from shock in combat. In WW1, it was called Shell Shock, a terrifying name. The same condition in WW1 was called Battle Fatigue, a nicer name. In the Korean War, the name changed to Operational Exhaustion, removing any humanity from it. After the Vietnam War, the name because Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. When you compare the terms "Shell Shock" and "PTSD", it's obvious what the intent is.

[1]: https://youtu.be/vuEQixrBKCc

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#45

Post by djsumdog »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #34
alehul wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, maybe naively, always believed that the U.S. operates at a level of secrecy and complexity where dozens of terrorist attacks are thwarted every year, and that this surveillance plays a hand in it (but to admit that would hinder its effectiveness). Is it really possible we only have Maybe it is possible, in which case the U.S. has been very successful at convincing my generation it's a larger issue than it rea…

If you subscribe to a definition of "terrorist attack" that includes "someone with political beliefs I don't like possessing a handgun in violation of the law" then sure, dozens per year thwarted sounds about right.

There is still a lot of unrest in Portland and Seattle, but Federal police (US Marshals, FBI, BORTAC, et. al.) have used regular old police work (cameras, under cover anarchists, wiretaps with warrants) to arrest a ton of these people when the city prosecutors simply wouldn't do a damn thing or catch and release them.

Now many of these people are facing federal crimes. You can get some serious years for swinging a sledge hammer at a US Marshal, as what happened at the Federal Courthouse in Portland. (Remember, three of those Feds are now blind in at least one eye from the green lasers?)

But the Anarchists/Antifa types that are burning down Portland are also being thrown together with the McCloskeys who were arrested for having guns out, while on their lawn, after people broke into their gated community. Or Jake Gardner, who the DA ruled as acting in self defense, with a full video clearly showing him acting in self defense after both he and his father were attached.

We're starting to see real terrorists conflated with what are clearly political prisoners from local officials.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#46

Post by djsumdog »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #38
colinmhayes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't have to take your shoes off anymore if you precheck.

I don't give a uck about the shoes actually but I absolutely don't feel like unlocking my phone or laptop, even though there's nothing criminal.

I've never had to do that, but I haven't flown since 2016. If I was asked, I'd refuse. If they wouldn't let me though, I'd walk away and eat the cost.

I'll remember this for next time though. I'll be sure to check my phone and laptop. I could always just buy a book and not have electronic devices .. or maybe take a cassette deck.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#47

Post by tingol »

MarcellusDrum wrote: post #44
ianbutler wrote: post #5

No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secret warrants, founded on a dubious premise that over the last 20 years have largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. This is a system designed to protect the larger system from any civs who may be getti…

The "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad. Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1] An good example he used to show this is the condition the fighters get from shock in combat. In WW1, it was called Shell Shock, a terrifying name. The same condition in WW1 was called Battle Fatigue, a nicer name. In the Korean War, the name changed to Operational Exhausti…

Well "fatigue", "exhaustion" and "shock" imply you could just get over those, as medicine advanced we got a better picture of what it is, hence the more precise term now.

As for the "Patriot Act", it's funny how ironic of a name it is.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#48

Post by docPangloss »

I referenced PRISM in a comment to a recent Apple article on HN a couple of days ago. It triggered HN and Apple fans and the comment ultimately got shadow-banned by moderators.[1]

Anyway, it’s astonishing that so many people willfully continue to use products/services offered by the core companies that are members of PRISM surveillance. Members provide access to ALL user data/information to NSA et al. Here are some technology/telecom company members (and approx. date joined):

* Microsoft (2007)

* Yahoo! (2008)

* Facebook (2009)

* Google (2009) / YouTube (2010)

* Apple (2012)

* Dropbox (tbd)

* Verizon (and probably T-Mobile/Sprint, AT&T, etc.)

These member companies are effectively an extension of three letter agencies (intel) and are above the law.

A dozen+ countries participate in PRISM, too.[2]

Want to Break Out of the PRISM? It’s relatively easy. The nonprofit Prism-Break provides people a path to get started.[3]

Resources/Notes:

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24738743

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#C...

[3] https://prism-break.org/en/

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#49

Post by cjwhite »

djsumdog wrote: post #45
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you subscribe to a definition of "terrorist attack" that includes "someone with political beliefs I don't like possessing a handgun in violation of the law" then sure, dozens per year thwarted sounds about right.

There is still a lot of unrest in Portland and Seattle, but Federal police (US Marshals, FBI, BORTAC, et. al.) have used regular old police work (cameras, under cover anarchists, wiretaps with warrants) to arrest a ton of these people when the city prosecutors simply wouldn't do a damn thing or catch and release them. Now many of these people are facing federal crimes. You can get some serious years for swinging a sl…

MORE FOX NEWS PLEASE

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#50

Post by ed25519FUUU »

Not only did it not prevent any terrorist attack, but was used openly as a way to build opposition research on political opponents in the USA since 2016 but probably earlier.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-unmasking-q-a-11589481210

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