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Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

daniel-suarez.com

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Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physics followed closely by economics.

Have you seen the estimated values of ores in a decent asteroid? I think it's technology and up front financing. Well, and there are probably space treaties that are problematic. I'd drop an ion drive on the asteroid and nudge it towards the earth (but not AT it), and once it's in a stable near orbit, figure out what to do with a much faster communication loop with remotes/robots: process in orbit, drop parts down to…

When the Spanish extracted all the silver and gold they could from South America, it caused a dramatic reduction in the value of silver and gold in Europe.

I.e. dropping a huge chunk of rare Earths onto Earth will make them not-so-rare and prices will collapse.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the estimated values of ores in a decent asteroid? I think it's technology and up front financing. Well, and there are probably space treaties that are problematic. I'd drop an ion drive on the asteroid and nudge it towards the earth (but not AT it), and once it's in a stable near orbit, figure out what to do with a much faster communication loop with remotes/robots: process in orbit, drop parts down to…

Space treaties- means war, inevitably Nudge towards earth Stable near orbit Remotes/ robots Process in orbit Drop to earth Space X Damn, you just outlined a horror novel in space

See "Footfall" by Niven & Pournelle.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#43

in Delta-V - one character goes on a rant about how Mars is pretty much a dead end. Does anyone know how true this is?

Mars will certainly be challenging to colonize, but it has some major advantages that I believe outweigh the disadvantages. First, water is pretty abundant almost everywhere on Mars. Second, carbon is abundant and nitrogen is abundant enough to make food and plastic production viable. Third, Mars has an atmosphere which is thick enough to provide some protection from radiation and meteorites but thin enough that cond…

What Mars lacks is a source of power. The solar incidence may be too weak to support much of anything. No fissile materials have yet been discovered there.

The Moon has plenty of solar to harvest.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#44
post #14

Not related to the novel, but what is the current biggest technological challenge to asteroid mining?

Rockets are expensive to launch from earth. If you can refuel in space it's a different story but where would you get the fuel from if you haven't mined an asteroid or the moon yet? It's a chicken and egg type of problem.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#45

I couldn't find it on en.wikipedia, but Konstantin (the man) seems to have been a precursor of transhumanists: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Tsiolkovski#Cosmism... .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Tsiolkovsky

He was considered one of the founding fathers of cosmonautics in the USSR.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#46
post #31
post #14

Not related to the novel, but what is the current biggest technological challenge to asteroid mining?

I guess it depends on what your goal is. If it's just to bring back high-value metals to Earth, then that's probably the least complicated because the mass you have to move is low. I don't know the logistics of, say, gold mining in space, but you might not even bother with any on-site processing. Just grab a rock with a big gold vein and haul it back. That presupposes you know how to find such a rock. If your goal is…

> Just grab a rock with a big gold vein and haul it back.

That's not how it works.

Simply put, most small asteroids are undifferentiated. Meaning, they all have roughly similar mix of materials that depend mostly on the distance to the sun of where they formed. Unlike on earth, since they formed they have never been molten or been subject to erosion and transport by weather and water, which concentrates like materials together. Most asteroids are basically balls of dust where any grain is pretty much in the place where it landed when it first hit the ball.

The upside of this is that gold (and similar heavy metals) is much more abundant in asteroids than it is in the earth's crust, because when the whole earth was molten, all of our native gold ended up deep in the core. The gold we do have on earth is mostly what has rained down in meteors since the earth's crust has been solid. If they were on earth, each and every asteroid would be made of an exceptionally rich gold ore. However, add the cost of moving all of it back, and even with implausibly good rockets, it's just not worth it.

The feasible options are either:

1. Refine in situ. Develop some process of separating all that gold (and other valuable materials that are much more abundant in asteroids than on earth) from the less valuable materials, and then just send the gold back. The fact that we are talking about dealing with a ball of barely-compacted dust makes this in some ways easier, in others harder.

2. Find one of the much rarer differentiated chunks of rock and metal instead. They have much higher concentrations of the stuff you want, and are in many ways much more convenient to deal with, given how they actually have a hard surface and all. The biggest problem with them is that they are generally going to be very big. As in, less rocks floating in space and more minor planets. The most promising candidate for this is 16 Psyche, which is believed to be an exposed iron core of a protoplanet that got smashed apart by a very energetic collision. It probably has more gold than all of earth's crust, and it probably exists as an uniform solid gold layer.

The problem with 16 Psyche is that you are not moving it anywhere. It's >250km across and masses more than 2 quadrillion tonnes. So you have to dig into it. And, the layers above the gold layer are made of solid nickel-iron. So you either hope that there is a crack into the deep layers formed when the protoplanet was busted apart, and use that, or you somehow tunnel through a hundred kilometers of iron.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#47
post #14

Not related to the novel, but what is the current biggest technological challenge to asteroid mining?

Casey Handmer has a great blog taking hard analysis of what activities will be practical in space. He argues there is no real reason for asteroid mining to bring resources back to earth. So the challenge is to identify a large market for resources to be used in space.

https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2019/08/27/there-are-no-k...

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#48
post #6

I enjoyed Delta-V, but Daemon and Freedom IMO were much more entertaining

Daemon and Freedom are top class hard scifi. The plot hinges on technical detail that is both completely plausible and a natural extension of existing information technology. It's obvious that Suarez really understands what he's talking about in a deep way. I'd say "Daemon" is top twenty for best hard scifi books. http://superkuh.com/hardscifi.txt Delta-v is good scifi and I love this kind of background detail.

Funny you should bring up "Daemon", I just tried to read it. If anything, I found the writing focussed too much on accurate details at the expense of good storytelling. As the plot was no secret, and the concept fairly trivial, I gave up pretty quickly.

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#49
post #45

I couldn't find it on en.wikipedia, but Konstantin (the man) seems to have been a precursor of transhumanists: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Tsiolkovski#Cosmism... .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Tsiolkovsky He was considered one of the founding fathers of cosmonautics in the USSR.

Yes, I believe he's on the left in the pantheon: https://earth.google.com/web/@29.56025315,-95.08501348,28.52... but the english wikipedia article talks mostly about those of his ideas which had substantial impact, and doesn't mention his more science-fictional manifestos.

(My guesses: Циолковский, Королёв, Гагарин, ??)

Re: Delta-V: Designing the Asteroid Mining Ship 'Konstantin'

#50

I enjoyed Delta-V, but Daemon and Freedom IMO were much more entertaining

This Amazon review doesn't seem too promising, and there were few others that echoed the same sentiment.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B07FLX8V84/R1CKDTZCNU5E6...

How do you feel about the non-tech parts of the novel? Does it get soapboxy or cartoony, or does it hold a sensible tone?

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