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Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

kartick.substack.com

41–50 of 136 posts

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#41
Given the rate at which movies, music, and books are created, it stands to reason that most of the best art ever created was created more than 10 years ago.

One reason that's not a persuasive enough argument for many people is that what they want to get out of art is different. If you want the best sensory experience, then a black and white movie from the 30s is probably not to your taste. Other people appreciate the social aspect of media: being able to be participate in an ongoing conversation about some work, actor, or topic.

Both of those are valid reasons to like things, but ideally, you want to be able to see the value of a work independent of your own preferences. That doesn't mean denying your own preferences. But, part of a successful education is cultivating the ability to appreciate culture of all kinds, and on its own terms.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#42
post #6

> Go by the average rating, not popularity. It’s better to watch something a million people love than something 10 million people watched and consider okay. ... but the average rating is a measure of popularity :/. The best movies I have ever seen are rated poorly, because most people didn't understand them or they weren't "easy" to watch; if you want to find good content, you need to read reviews and find people who…

The worst part about open ratings systems is that the people who choose to rate a movie select themselves. If a million people love a thing, they could be the only million people who love a thing (whereas the OP implicitly thinks of them as the only people who noticed a thing.) And as you say, some things have too large an audience due to marketing. There's got to be some way to offset marketing in ratings by deriving how much was done from the people who chose to rate a thing.

Even worse, a rating could be because the raters were most of the people to notice a thing, but in a negative way. All ratings on the internet about things that center women or racial minorities should be ignored. Because of the overwhelming population of white male (and incel-type right-wing internet subculture) commenters, they can get a hate-boner about a movie or tv show just from the title or subject, network with each other, and then be responsible for an order of magnitude more ratings on the thing than the people who the thing was made for.

I think the best way to find other things you like is to figure out what the authors of the things you like themselves like or have worked on. That stuff is hard to find, though. You can get it from references within the works or from interviews and biographies, but it's nothing that algorithms are extracting yet.

I also find a habit from my old punk rock days to work: find other people who were working in the same place at around the same time. You may actually just like the zeitgeist, but have assigned it entirely to the only authors from that place/time that you've been exposed to.

Critic's reviews I find to be worthless, or at least their text. The ideal critic for me is one that just says "yes" or "no" to a long list of movies. You'll figure out from skimming the list whether that critic is a good critic for you. I often find Ebert's reviews a pleasure to read, but I rarely agree with him about the films themselves. Artistic criticism is generally a writing exercise imo, not anything with an actual relationship to the thing being commented upon. I'd put it 3rd in the ranking of most meaningless journalism, right below sports writing, which is still more meaningful than the ultimate: analysis of the reasons behind today's market movements.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#43
post #6

> Go by the average rating, not popularity. It’s better to watch something a million people love than something 10 million people watched and consider okay. ... but the average rating is a measure of popularity :/. The best movies I have ever seen are rated poorly, because most people didn't understand them or they weren't "easy" to watch; if you want to find good content, you need to read reviews and find people who…

> but the average rating is a measure of popularity Not quite? Mulholland drive for example, was widely praised by critics and is remembered fondly by film nerds, but is not in most senses “popular”. I’m not arguing that ratings are perfect, I largely agree with you; just that they’re a weird measurement and not one largely of popularity.

I would argue that it is a very popular film released by a major studio, and directed by one of the most popular directors in history. Mulholland Drive is not a film that only "film buffs" saw. I'm not sure if I've every met anyone who hasn't seen a David Lynch film, and I rarely meet anyone who hasn't enjoyed a David Lynch film. He's a multi-millionaire in high demand that entirely dictates his own work conditions.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#44
post #26

As someone who apparently frequents much more pretentious online film circles than OP, the idea that the highest rated films and shows on IMDB represent the "best" of the mediums is kinda silly. The article uses Star Trek (2009) as its example of a mediocre film. Its IMDB rating is 7.9/10 from over 500k votes over 11 years -- surely this would place the film squarely in the "tried and tested" category. If I look on s…

Your mention of taste is interesting as https://www.criticker.com engine basically recommends movies based on other people who have liked and disliked the same movies as you liked other films and it’s really effective!

I admittedly haven’t tried this one (I guess I will), but this was also the promise of Goodreads, and Netflix since the DVD era, and it just never seems to work for me.

I have admittedly discovered a handful of great authors via Goodreads recommendations, but they’re big names I think I would have eventually found anyway (e.g. Brandon Sanderson), and I spent a lot of time adding books I’d read and carefully considering how to rate each one.

I’m actually broadly curious why these systems aren’t more effective. It seems like such a perfect system on paper.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#45
> In the days before the Internet, we had limited space in bookshops, limited TV channels, etc. If you wanted to buy an audiotape, you could buy only what a nearby music shop offered. In those days, you got what was new, whether you liked it or not.

My copy of "Greatest Hits of 1720", purchased in a nearby music shop before there was a commercial Internet, disagrees.

That limited space for physical goods in local stores didn't mean we only got new stuff. The record shops had an oldies section (not new but only a generation or two old music) and a classical section (for much older music). Older books and movies were similarly available at bookstores and video stores.

The way they dealt with limited space was by only stocking the best of the older stuff. You could not go into a music store and find the symphonies of whoever was the 50th best symphony composer from the time of Beethoven. You would just find Beethoven and Haydn and Schubert and some others.

Compare to the new section, where you would find everything from the best to the run of the mill.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not quite Goodreads is kind of a weird space which shows that the popular vote is kind of useless. It’s hard to find a good book based on ratings. Everything seems to be either 4+ stars or garbage. The Fault in our Stars probably has a better rating than print copies of Hamlet. Actually, all classics seem to hover around 3.68 stars. Never 2. In fact, I don’t think any books published in the history of the world hav…

Star ratings have been widely proven to be a total failure. Most people treat them as binary: either something is nice, and gets 5, or is crap, and gets 1. The neutral score for things that are OK tends to be 5, sometimes 4. This is particularly pronounced whenever there are any consequences attached to the ratings. If you give anything but 5 to your Uber driver, you're risking them losing their job. If you give anyt…

While I agree with you, it is worth commenting on the idea that a 5 out of 5 Uber ride isn’t quite the same thing as a masterpiece of cinema which someone gives 5 stars to on a platform like Mubi. I always interpreted a perfect Uber ride as clean, safe, no BS. A four star Uber does mean that something was a bit off about the experience whereas a four star movie was still wonderful but not quite earth shattering like A 5 star stone cold classic such as L’Aventura or Battle Royale.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the average rating is a measure of popularity Not quite? Mulholland drive for example, was widely praised by critics and is remembered fondly by film nerds, but is not in most senses “popular”. I’m not arguing that ratings are perfect, I largely agree with you; just that they’re a weird measurement and not one largely of popularity.

I would argue that it is a very popular film released by a major studio, and directed by one of the most popular directors in history. Mulholland Drive is not a film that only "film buffs" saw. I'm not sure if I've every met anyone who hasn't seen a David Lynch film, and I rarely meet anyone who hasn't enjoyed a David Lynch film. He's a multi-millionaire in high demand that entirely dictates his own work conditions.

Count me in your second group. I've seen several David Lynch movies, never enjoyed a single one of them. There's something about his film aesthetic but also about his view of what the world really is that just doesn't sit right with me. When I do see them it's because one or more film nerds I respect has raved about it, and I think I should give it a chance. But ... nope, same film aesthetic, same worldview that I just can't enjoy.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sight and Sound put out two excellent lists every ten years. 100 best films of all time as voted by filmmakers and another list voted on by published critics. I prefer the filmmaker list overall but it’s interesting to see how the darlings wax and wane over the years. Citizen Kane dominated for decades but now it’s Vertigo. https://www2.bfi.org.uk/greatest-films-all-time

I love this list, last year I added like 20 movies to my watch list from it.

I first learned about it like twenty years ago. Some of them really need a second or third viewing to click.

When I was younger, it seemed obvious to me that Grand Illusion is the greatest Renoir film, easy. Rules of the Game was a head scratcher. I never understood why it was so highly regarded. It seemed more dated and slow. But now that I’m a little older I can see what’s great about it a little more clearly.

The list does seem a little too top heavy with B&W films from the 40s but most days I find myself agreeing with that era being best.

Re: Enjoy the Best, Not the Latest, Media

#50
post #45

> In the days before the Internet, we had limited space in bookshops, limited TV channels, etc. If you wanted to buy an audiotape, you could buy only what a nearby music shop offered. In those days, you got what was new, whether you liked it or not. My copy of "Greatest Hits of 1720", purchased in a nearby music shop before there was a commercial Internet, disagrees. That limited space for physical goods in local sto…

I don’t know.. when I was a kid in the 80s/90s the local video store was most definitely not stocked with criterion collection level titles. Things definitely got better in the 2000s when DVD hit its stride. Special Editon DVDs were a great excuse to rerelease a ton of great stuff which would have otherwise been forgotten.

I feel like we have regressed a bit now. One of my biggest issues with Netflix is that they don’t expire more classic or foreign cinema.

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