Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida • Hacker News Board

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#41

Post by rbecker » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:09 PM UTC

g8oz wrote: post #27

tssva wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a convicted felon in FL you need to have completely full filled the terms of your sentence from the courts in order to have your voting rights restored. This sentence may include the payment of fines or restitution. It is the failure to pay these court ordered payments and therefore completing the terms of their sentence which prevents a convicted felon from being able to vote. General debts do not prevent someone…

A distinction without a difference.

There's a big difference between a fine and a debt. The purpose of each is different, and fines can be set proportional to the persons wealth.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#42

Post by throwaway0a5e » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #13

chrisco255 wrote: post #12

Florida law on this should be concerning for Bloomberg: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20St... Whoever by bribery, menace, threat, or other corruption whatsoever, either directly or indirectly, attempts to influence, deceive, or deter any elector in voting or interferes with him or her in the free exercise of the elector’s right to vote at any election commits a felony of the third degree, pu…

No, Bloomberg does not have anything to fear from claims of bribery or trying to buy votes. As long as this policy is applied to anyone who applies for it regardless of any stated voting intention. It is not illegal for political parties to provide rides to the voting booth as long as they offer it to anyone who asks and do not try to influence the voter. In this case Bloomberg is making a guess as to the voting inte…

> As long as this policy is applied to anyone who applies for it regardless of any stated voting intention. It is not illegal for political parties to provide rides to the voting booth as long as they offer it to anyone who asks and do not try to influence the voter.

It's very possible to offer something to everyone but ensure that "your team" makes up the bulk of the people taking up the offer.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#43

Post by yostrovs » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:17 PM UTC

f-securus wrote: post #39

yostrovs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As there are rights and privileges, there are also responsibilities. One is to maintain yourself within the bounds of the law. Seems like if you're not willing to take responsibility for your actions then you don't get to tell others what to do through voting.

What if some laws are selectively enforced and don’t have a logical reason for even existing? Is it morally okay to ignore those laws until logic and sense prevails? I think it is ironic how some Americans cry ‘freedom’ over wearing masks or taxes but don’t skip a beat in dictating how somebody else treats their own body. What I’m saying is not all laws are just and being a Felon doesn’t diminish the person’s reasoni…

In theory, yes. But the people he's paying for have real crimes on their records, like assault and robbery. The only thing he takes into account is race. If black or latino, he pays. If you're not, you still don't get to vote.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#44

Post by rbecker » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

ansaso wrote: post #36

gridlockd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not so absurd to have a system that somewhat disincentivizes politicians from pandering to criminals. If those criminals all were KKK members, you probably would be a little more uneasy about them voting.

In reality they aren't KKK members though. Instead they are disproportionately black and other minorities. Regardless of whether or not you think incarceration of minorities is systemized disenfranchisement, I think any loophole that hypothetically allows the system to chose who may vote is a bigger threat to democracy than an incentive to appeal to criminals. Totally agree with your point that incentivizing "panderi…

> Instead they are disproportionately black and other minorities.

Disproportionate to what? Their share of the population, or their share of homicides committed? (Using homicide because, unlike other crimes, it's hard to bias the numbers by over-policing. You'll catch more jay-walkers if you assign more police to an area, but you'll get roughly the same number of dead bodies.)

> Totally agree with your point that incentivizing "pandering to criminals" can be a bad thing though

If so many people are considered criminals that pandering to them is required to win elections, then perhaps it's the legal system that's in the wrong.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#45

Post by gridlockd » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

ansaso wrote: post #36

gridlockd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not so absurd to have a system that somewhat disincentivizes politicians from pandering to criminals. If those criminals all were KKK members, you probably would be a little more uneasy about them voting.

In reality they aren't KKK members though. Instead they are disproportionately black and other minorities. Regardless of whether or not you think incarceration of minorities is systemized disenfranchisement, I think any loophole that hypothetically allows the system to chose who may vote is a bigger threat to democracy than an incentive to appeal to criminals. Totally agree with your point that incentivizing "panderi…

> In reality they aren't KKK members though. Instead they are disproportionately black and other minorities.

They are overwhelmingly felons. The disenfranchisement rate is highest among blacks at 7.8%, so 92.2% of blacks, so the overwhelming majority, is not affected by this at all. What makes you think the majority of blacks would welcome the enfranchisement of criminals that happen to share their skin color? After all, the victims of these criminals are overwhelmingly black themselves.

Also, black voter turnout has been consistently 5-10% lower than white voter turnout except for the election of Barack Obama, where it was the opposite. That means the impact of felony disenfranchisement at most is about as high as non-participation has been in the past.

> Regardless of whether or not you think incarceration of minorities is systemized disenfranchisement...

Indeed I don't think so.

>... I think any loophole that hypothetically allows the system to chose who may vote is a bigger threat to democracy than an incentive to appeal to criminals.

I don't consider it a loophole, becoming a felon is a fairly high bar to getting disenfranchised and the constitution sets some boundaries as to what can be considered a felony. If anything, I would argue that locking someone up for years for selling an ounce of weed is unconstitutional.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#46

Post by gridlockd » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #37

This is genius. I was wondering how Bloomberg would spend the $100m he committed to Florida. I had never considered reenfranchising ex-felons. Money well spent. The Politico article is more reality-based. https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/09/22/blo... It's not clear if Bloomberg also paid restitution, money owed to victims, in addition to fines and legal debts. -- One my besties ran our state's versi…

> Money well spent.

Imagine being a black person with college or business debt and you see this billionaire rewarding all these felons. I think I'd be voting Trump, out of spite.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#47

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

HaloZero wrote: post #30

_Microft wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand. I think "buying a vote" implies that it had to go to a particular candidate. This only allows these people to vote again at all.

It is certainly very targeted not sure what to call it, voter re-enfranchisement? While they said they targeted Black and Latinos I imagine they also targeted younger demographics to court a more Democratic turnout. I personally think it's same as any campaign group that is helping and assisting people get to voting centers. It's money enabling people to vote. And thus it's fine that a Democrat is trying to help his…

[deleted]

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#48

Post by non-entity » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:58 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #46

specialist wrote: post #37

This is genius. I was wondering how Bloomberg would spend the $100m he committed to Florida. I had never considered reenfranchising ex-felons. Money well spent. The Politico article is more reality-based. https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/09/22/blo... It's not clear if Bloomberg also paid restitution, money owed to victims, in addition to fines and legal debts. -- One my besties ran our state's versi…

> Money well spent. Imagine being a black person with college or business debt and you see this billionaire rewarding all these felons. I think I'd be voting Trump, out of spite.

Not all people are as immature as you.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#49

Post by gridlockd » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

non-entity wrote: post #48

gridlockd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money well spent. Imagine being a black person with college or business debt and you see this billionaire rewarding all these felons. I think I'd be voting Trump, out of spite.

Not all people are as immature as you.

Not all of them, but 31,001 out of 3 million might be.

Re: Bloomberg pays off $20m debts of 31,000 felons so they can vote in Florida

#50

Post by codyb » Wed, Sep 23, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #46

specialist wrote: post #37

This is genius. I was wondering how Bloomberg would spend the $100m he committed to Florida. I had never considered reenfranchising ex-felons. Money well spent. The Politico article is more reality-based. https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/09/22/blo... It's not clear if Bloomberg also paid restitution, money owed to victims, in addition to fines and legal debts. -- One my besties ran our state's versi…

> Money well spent. Imagine being a black person with college or business debt and you see this billionaire rewarding all these felons. I think I'd be voting Trump, out of spite.

Rewarding is a bit of a stretch. My understanding is the people of Florida had an up down referendum on restoring voting rights to felons who’ve served their time a few years back which passed.

Then the GOP down there did some maneuvering and introduced this “pay off all debts first” clause which I believe is fairly unpopular down there (although I cannot cite anything for that).

Bloomberg is rectifying what many consider to be a wrong down there and reenfranchising (not a word) these 32,000 voters with this gesture.

Given the incredible disparities within our criminal justice system I sincerely doubt most Black people are sitting there mad that the right to vote is being restored to these persons, especially since apparently the idea is popular enough that the referendum passed.