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Update on Mozilla WebThings

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Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#41

Post by ocdtrekkie »

benfrancis wrote: post #35
detaro wrote: post #7

Maybe just a marketing failure, but WebThings to me always seemed like a project with no clear purpose in the ecosystem. Not enough mindshare and nothing unique to attract that mindshare. Open-source home automation projects is not a field lacking options. While the idea of standardization for protocols has some merit, a W3C group working silently and then tying it to another new standalone "gateway" project is not t…

To answer your question, the goal of the WebThings platform as a whole is to improve interoperability between connected devices by making the Web of Things a unifying application layer for the Internet of Things which bridges together multiple underlying IoT protocols. The goal of the WebThings Gateway is to allow users to directly monitor and control their homes over the web, without a middleman. Building a smart ho…

I think WebThings, which I haven't heard about in over a year, sounds like the BetaMax to Connected Home over IP (CHIP)'s VHS: https://www.connectedhomeip.com/

Which has ZigBee, Z-Wave, Ikea, Legrand, Amazon, Apple, Comcast, Google, Huawei, Samsung, Texas Instruments, and a lot of others on board. Almost every consumer electronics, home automation, and home electrical company is on their list somewhere.

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#43

Post by dolmen »

atonse wrote: post #12
dahfizz wrote: post #3

I hope this goes well, but I am worried. This is a project that I really care about. Mozilla seemed like our only hope for a smart home that doesn't spy on you between WebThings and all the speech processing tech they had. It's important that we have open source alternatives. I will be contributing to this project and I encourage others to do so as well.

Apple’s HomeKit Is another ecosystem that doesn’t spy on you. It’s the main reason I picked it even though there are fewer, more expensive devices to choose from.

From HomeKit Accessory Protocol specification (https://developer.apple.com/fr/support/homekit-accessory-pro...): "a HomeKit accessory that will be distributed or sold must incorporate the Apple Authentication Coprocessor"

Do you know what the Authentication Coprocessor do?

At least those proprietary processor and proprietary protocol are the opposite of the WebThings approach to home automation.

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#44

Post by benfrancis »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #41
benfrancis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question, the goal of the WebThings platform as a whole is to improve interoperability between connected devices by making the Web of Things a unifying application layer for the Internet of Things which bridges together multiple underlying IoT protocols. The goal of the WebThings Gateway is to allow users to directly monitor and control their homes over the web, without a middleman. Building a smart ho…

I think WebThings, which I haven't heard about in over a year, sounds like the BetaMax to Connected Home over IP (CHIP)'s VHS: https://www.connectedhomeip.com/ Which has ZigBee, Z-Wave, Ikea, Legrand, Amazon, Apple, Comcast, Google, Huawei, Samsung, Texas Instruments, and a lot of others on board. Almost every consumer electronics, home automation, and home electrical company is on their list somewhere.

I think that's a fair observation and I'm really excited about CHIP. The person driving CHIP at Apple was the person who originally hired me to work at Mozilla and I'm hopeful they might pull it off. The list of participants is impressive and just getting Apple, Google, Amazon and Samsung around the same table is an achievement (Samsung and Google are both members of W3C WoT groups but Samsung is the only one really participating). A couple of points though...

Firstly, CHIP is focused specifically on the connected home whereas the Web of Things has broader applications. My commercial interest in the Web of Things extends beyond the connected home.

Secondly, it's not yet clear to me whether CHIP will compete with or could complement the Web of Things.

On the face of it, being an IP-based protocol, CHIP could solve the same kinds of problems as the Web of Things in the connected home space. It could be potentially become ubiquitous on devices, gateways and cloud services. However, I wonder if the dependency on IPv6 may limit the adoption outside local networks initially. This may mean that devices themselves use CHIP instead of something like Zigbee or Z-Wave, but that IoT applications on gateways and in the cloud continue to use other technologies, like the Web of Things.

Either way I hope CHIP succeeds and I'm looking for ways to support CHIP on the WebThings Gateway.

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#46

Post by detaro »

baybal2 wrote: post #40
detaro wrote: post #7

Maybe just a marketing failure, but WebThings to me always seemed like a project with no clear purpose in the ecosystem. Not enough mindshare and nothing unique to attract that mindshare. Open-source home automation projects is not a field lacking options. While the idea of standardization for protocols has some merit, a W3C group working silently and then tying it to another new standalone "gateway" project is not t…

Having tried 10+ "IOT Frameworks," and still had to write our own because none of them managed to even boot on the most beefy MCU on the market without extra RAM. Another example of something begging for a question "Do these people ever use their own software?"

Specific to the software discussed here: Bit weird criticism of software that obviously is not intended to run on end-devices with MCUs, but on a more powerful gateway. (But yes, there is overall too much focus on that part compared to the bits that run closer to the hardware)

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#47

Post by pornel »

> Because your smart home gateway is designed to operate locally inside your home without the need for a centralised cloud service, it will continue to work just as before.

Kudos for that. Too many "smart" things are tied to online accounts for no good reason.

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#48

Post by dolmen »

benfrancis wrote: post #14
josteink wrote: post #2

In other words: It's dead. And to be clear, IMO that is absolutely fair. At this stage WebThings seemed more like a conceptual thought, rather than actual marketable products, protocols or even code. If Mozilla need to cut for real, they should definitely get rid of stuff like this which lacked a complete and convincing story.

I'm pleased to report that WebThings isn't dead, it is alive and kicking with a new commercial sponsor. The Thing Description specification at the core of WebThings is now a W3C Recommendation ( https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description/ ) and there is a new W3C Web Thing Protocol community group working on standardising the concrete HTTP & WebSockets based protocol WebThings uses to monitor and control devices. Th…

What interested me in WebThings was:

* independance of any device vendor

* independance of operating system vendor

* independance of cloud vendor (local data)

* true openess that would allow some hope of device vendors contributing integrations

As a former developer of a proprietary home gateway who has studied and implemented many home automation protocols I know too much the mess of the home automation ecosystem. Just walled gardens. And gateway APIs are one way to lock-in users and software developers.

I wonder if that "new commercial sponsor" will not change the balance of independancy.

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#49

Post by the__alchemist »

pornel wrote: post #47

> Because your smart home gateway is designed to operate locally inside your home without the need for a centralised cloud service, it will continue to work just as before. Kudos for that. Too many "smart" things are tied to online accounts for no good reason.

The reasons are good for the business; not good for the customer.

Re: Update on Mozilla WebThings

#50

Post by slantyyz »

dvionoth wrote: post #16
dahfizz wrote: post #3

I hope this goes well, but I am worried. This is a project that I really care about. Mozilla seemed like our only hope for a smart home that doesn't spy on you between WebThings and all the speech processing tech they had. It's important that we have open source alternatives. I will be contributing to this project and I encourage others to do so as well.

have you heard of HASS? https://www.home-assistant.io/ it seems like the perfect fit for you.

There's also OpenHAB https://www.openhab.org/
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