Interestingly, the Chinese word for learning, 学 (xue) also means to imitate/to mimic.
I am confused, how else can you learn by NOT imitate?
Discovery. Trial and error. Observation of nature.
Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
41–50 of 102 posts
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#42In general cloning is pretty bad. If I ripped off a popular iphone app, threw it on the app store, I'd be dilution the profit of the original creators and confusing users. I profit at everyone else's expense.
But there is a pretty good chance that Tumblr and Quora will soon be blocked in China. (All it takes is one blurb by one user on a sensitive issue, which is how Posterous and blogspot got blocked).
So if we assumed that
1) A product like Tumblr creates value for it's users 2) Tumblr will never be able to profit from China without the government/network connections
then cloning Tumblr seems like a win win scenario for everyone involved.
If doing a startup is about creating something users want(that doesn't exist yet or is not accessible for whatever reason), and the spirit of startups is to do things as efficiently and cheaply as possible, then isn't Diandian(the Tumblr clone) doing exactly what they are suppose to?
Disclaimer: I founded a startup in Beijing a few months ago, and actually received seed funding from Kaifu's Innovation Works. I don't work for them, nor am I trying to defend anyone's actions(Come on guys... even the ICONS?). Just offering a different perspective from the other side of the the great firewall of China. ^^
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#43Tumblr will have the last laugh here. There's practically no market for tasteful online advertising or paid software in China. So, while he might rack-up users it will be hard to monetize this.
I live in China (well, 40% of my time), work for a social network, and I think you're wrong.
Tumblr is sometimes blocked here, and I would bet that it's going to have the same destiny as Facebook and Twitter here.
The local Facebook clones work very well here, as does the local Twitter clone (that employs something like 500people). Meanwhile, the "originals" are blocked, and only people who can access internet through proxies or VPNs can access them.
Therefore, I don't really think of any reason why Tumblr would have the last laugh.
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've often wondered if one of the (many) reasons why there are so few successful startups coming out of Europe is due to the copying. I visited Berlin a while back and my buddy was telling me about a bunch of guys who've built a successful business (dozens of engineers) just cloning 'hot' American products. It's got to reduce the number of people working on brand new ideas. (I'm not suggesting that you can't build a…
Heh, that may be a factor, but I doubt it's the main one. Lots of American HN users seem to be pretty Liberal in their political outlook, and that's fine. But consider Germany, with a welfare state that looks after you from cradle to grave. If you want to start a startup there then you'd better have your EUR 20,000 in capital minimum, and you'd better do all the paperwork and comply with all the regulations and have…
We actually have an idea in an area which is - if I read posts on HN - pretty well funded. VCs and Angles have a lot of interest. But in Germany, people don't see it - the ones with money even less. And its really hard to start a business, as you already summed up.
We even think about moving to the US, but as a foreigner it's also not "easy" (well, noone said it would be easy to start something on your own - but you get what I mean)
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heh, that may be a factor, but I doubt it's the main one. Lots of American HN users seem to be pretty Liberal in their political outlook, and that's fine. But consider Germany, with a welfare state that looks after you from cradle to grave. If you want to start a startup there then you'd better have your EUR 20,000 in capital minimum, and you'd better do all the paperwork and comply with all the regulations and have…
We actually have an idea in an area which is - if I read posts on HN - pretty well funded. VCs and Angles have a lot of interest. But in Germany, people don't see it - the ones with money even less. And its really hard to start a business, as you already summed up. We even think about moving to the US, but as a foreigner it's also not "easy" (well, noone said it would be easy to start something on your own - but you…
Almost all the promising startups in Vienna move to London, either entirely or moving the HQ and maintaining only a development office back home. I wonder if hiring good developers is easier/cheaper in mainland Europe than in the tech centres where there seems to be a shortage right now.
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really, since Tumblr doesn't have any ads either. Come to think of it, besides selling premium themes, how else does Tumblr make money? Surely all the trust-fund hipsters on the site don't bring in wheelbarrows of money with their ironic 1-gear eco-bikes, do they?
You were downvoted for adding a snidey remark to a decent question. Next time just ask the question. Since I'm curious as well, how does Tumblr make money besides themes? Does anyone know their monetization strategy?
Exit
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#47I'm kind of surprised that anyone is actually surprised or offended by this kind of stuff. The US would be a backwater farming colony if it hadn't wholesale stolen the technologies that allowed New England to compete in the textile industry. That is only the most obvious example.
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#48In general cloning is pretty bad. If I ripped off a popular iphone app, threw it on the app store, I'd be dilution the profit of the original creators and confusing users. I profit at everyone else's expense. But there is a pretty good chance that Tumblr and Quora will soon be blocked in China. (All it takes is one blurb by one user on a sensitive issue, which is how Posterous and blogspot got blocked). So if we assu…
Since when is cloning another website defensible?
Look, if you want do a Tumblr-like startup, sure by all means go ahead. But why do you have to clone the original website?
Competition is good. Friendster begets Myspace begets Facebook. When Facebook was first launched in 2004, do you think people say,"Another Myspace clone."? No, they say, "Another Mysapce-like startup."
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#49Tumblr's not alone -- Innovation Works also has a pretty decent copy of my last start-up, Flurry, called Umeng. (For the curious, compare the product at flurry.com and umeng.com.) I've been watching Umeng for a bit and the services have slightly diverged, presumably because Umeng's learnt a bit more about the Chinese market and adapted its product. But the initial product was just a straight-up clone.
I am a little surprised to see this from as respected a person as Kai-Fu Lee, who I'd expect to be innovating, but you just have to shrug. This sort of thing happens in business, and it's not worth getting too excited about.
Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've often wondered if one of the (many) reasons why there are so few successful startups coming out of Europe is due to the copying. I visited Berlin a while back and my buddy was telling me about a bunch of guys who've built a successful business (dozens of engineers) just cloning 'hot' American products. It's got to reduce the number of people working on brand new ideas. (I'm not suggesting that you can't build a…
Heh, that may be a factor, but I doubt it's the main one. Lots of American HN users seem to be pretty Liberal in their political outlook, and that's fine. But consider Germany, with a welfare state that looks after you from cradle to grave. If you want to start a startup there then you'd better have your EUR 20,000 in capital minimum, and you'd better do all the paperwork and comply with all the regulations and have…
This argument doesn't make sense to me. Better wellfare lowers the risk of working at a startup, which would make more people try it. I guess work regulations and employee rights are make things harder in Europe than in the US, though.
According to Inc., "Norway has more entrepreneurs per capita than the United States":
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110201/in-norway-start-ups-say...
(Disclosure: I am indeed Norwegian.)
I think the more interesting question is how to create the next Google or Facebook outside the US.