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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#41

Post by smnrchrds »

sandstrom wrote: post #2

Alright, so Apple are forcing all developers to add Sign-in with Apple (if they have other third-party login services), privacy benefits aside. But if you Apple decide that they don't like you anymore, they'll not only cut you off the App Store, they'll also bury all (or a subset of) your users. Apple is starting to act more and more like a bully. [1] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#sig...

It appears that Apple deeply believes all iOS users are, fundamentally, Apple's customers, not the customers of any apps or services they use n their Apple device. It is consistent with their belief to take away Apple users from companies they no longer want to do business with.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#42

Post by prophesi »

bmarquez wrote: post #11

This just makes it risky for the consumer to rely on 'Sign in with Apple', especially for cross-platform applications. I found it extremely convenient especially from a privacy perspective (your name and email are hidden) but the risk I'll lose access to my accounts is too much.

I think this shows the risks of relying on _any_ social sign in. If that endpoint breaks, whether via a protocol upgrade, server downtime, or what have you, you can now no longer access any services relying on that social login.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#43

Post by emsy »

ProAm wrote: post #31
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

> Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, Isn't this why people pay the Apple tax? To have them protect you (their users) from 'bad apples'? Everyone liked their over bearing approach to their eco-system until it directly affected them, and now it's too much? Have your cake and eat it too?

In my eyes Android is terrible with regards to Google’s tracking and 3rd party app quality and privacy. Apple is the better alternative in my opinion (if you want to own a smartphone, which I do), but that doesn’t mean I like their abuse of power.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#44

Post by duhi88 »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #16
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

> Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Isn't that how all private companies work? If you walk into a mom-and-pop corner shop with no "shoes or shirt" you'll be removed as well—whether or not you think it's some kind of righteous protest.

If your business relies on your ability to walk in into a store with your shirt off and a mom-and-pop shop denies you access, you can look for one of their competitors. If all the mom-and-pop shops decide have a "no shirt, no service" policy, that rule probably exists for a reason (its a form of democracy).

I don't really care about Epic's stake in the matter; they are clearly making plenty of money. A smaller company with a different idea that treads the line with their in-app-purchases would be in a tough place.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#45

Post by 52-6F-62 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #29
52-6F-62 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Isn't that how all private companies work? If you walk into a mom-and-pop corner shop with no "shoes or shirt" you'll be removed as well—whether or not you think it's some kind of righteous protest.

Those kinds of rules are for pubic health reasons. If you serve the public then you can't discriminate against protected classes. Though it may be legal to refuse service for other arbitrary reasons. When I worked in retail and scouted prices at the completion they would ask me to leave the store.

Your example is definitely better.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#46

Post by pjmlp »

aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Nope, Epic broke the contract that they signed with Apple, in an attempt to create a marketing campaign for their own store, which outside HN I bet most users don't give a dam.

Like any breach of contract, it should be dealt appropriately.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#47

Post by pjmlp »

duhi88 wrote: post #44
52-6F-62 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Certainly, for public opinion, it means you now have to "tow the line", no protesting allowed. If you dare challenge us, we WILL REMOVE YOU. Isn't that how all private companies work? If you walk into a mom-and-pop corner shop with no "shoes or shirt" you'll be removed as well—whether or not you think it's some kind of righteous protest.

If your business relies on your ability to walk in into a store with your shirt off and a mom-and-pop shop denies you access, you can look for one of their competitors. If all the mom-and-pop shops decide have a "no shirt, no service" policy, that rule probably exists for a reason (its a form of democracy). I don't really care about Epic's stake in the matter; they are clearly making plenty of money. A smaller compan…

Android, Jolla, Purism,....

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#48

Post by sneak »

I think Apple’s brain drain over the last decade is finally starting to show.

This undermines their entire user-facing SSO strategy with anyone paying attention. (The dev-facing “implement our SSO or you can’t be on the iPhone” isn’t really a “strategy” per se.) Of course apps will have to support it to be in the App Store, but this means that any user paying attention now knows that their accounts/logins for PAID SERVICES are potentially at the mercy of Apple’s control crusade battles.

Dangerous precedent.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#49

Post by modeless »

minhazm wrote: post #37
modeless wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic alleges that Apple is breaking the law, and breaking the App Store rules was a pretty much required step to establish standing to sue. Is Apple above the legal system, such that they should be able to destroy businesses that dare to challenge them in court, regardless of the merits of their claims and before they are even heard?

Your comment makes it sound it sound like Apple is breaking the law. Epic could have brought on this lawsuit while still complying with the App Store rules, in fact the judge suggested they do that so their users aren't impacted. They wouldn't be getting kicked off right now and the Sign-in with Apple button wouldn't be getting disabled. They chose to break the app store rules, which they did agreed to, AND they also…

> They could revert their app right now and Apple would restore their account

You have no way of knowing this and frankly I doubt it. And I'm not sure that it wouldn't weaken their legal position.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#50

Post by Nextgrid »

jmpman wrote: post #25
aboringusername wrote: post #6

This is something many people feared might happen, and now, it's become a reality: Apple can, at will, remove your entire foundation or business, your (their) customers and your existence on iOS is just gone. Apple is a company that needs to be brought down a peg or two, it's far too 'valuable' in terms of its market worth, and needs a huge kick up the ass as Microsoft once had to show them some respect. And the EU w…

Replace Apple’s iOS ecosystem with Microsoft’s Xbox, Sony’s PlayStation or Nintendo’s Switch. Either you destroy the console ecosystem by forcing them all to open up, or classify iOS as somehow different... or you leave them all to enforce their business agreements through mutually accepted legal term. If Epic doesn’t want a different agreement than Apple, they can negotiate alternative legal terms.

I am not saying I agree with the restrictions imposed by the console manufacturers but that case is different.

A console is designed for a specific task (playing games and similar software), the market is somewhat competitive and you are free to buy a PC/Mac/Linux and get 99% of the functionality (minus a few exclusive titles). In fact consoles nowadays are just PCs running a custom build of a general-purpose OS.

The mobile market is different. There are only 2 dominant players (Apple and Google), they both have similar anti-competitive restrictions (side-loading on Android is a non-starter given the various security warnings, and even then the lack of officially-supported root access on Android means there are things official Google software can do that you can't do without resorting to exploits, plus Android requires you to accept Google's terms & privacy policy which does not comply with the GDPR). There are no other players; the open-source alternatives such as Pinephone are not viable alternatives as they cut you off from the vast majority of apps out there. Let's take a period-correct example, are there any Covid contact-tracing clients available for platforms besides iOS and Android?

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