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Escape from Creek Fire

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Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#41

Post by nick_kline »

vegardx wrote: post #11
kepler1 wrote: post #2

Maybe I'm just being harsh, but after reading several times and figuring out what was going on, it's an instagrammer's slight inconvenience and detour being dramatized (or implied, given the photos and hour-by-hour narrative) into a life-or-death hike out, yet with "smoked salmon and mussels accompanied by biryani rice". They had a weeklong backpacking trip planned, hiked to where they thought they would start it, en…

You're being a bit harsh. There are some good lessons in what you shouldn't do, perhaps not intended so, but still interesting. We don't have many forest fires here in Norway, but we do have very harsh winters. Every year a family or group of people are trapped in a blizzard and die. And most of it could have been avoided by following the "Norwegain Mountain Code"[1], which I imagine is similar all over the world. Tu…

Probably getting sick was a combination of exhaustion, breathing smoke and anxiety.

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#42

Post by volkl48 »

cactus2093 wrote: post #27
davidu wrote: post #18

I appreciated this write-up. The line between "mildly interesting story with some great photos" and "we made a wrong turn or wrong decision and died" is a lot thinner than I think this post makes clear. There are very few roads and people in the High Sierras, and Red Meadows pack station is basically it when it comes to services. Surrounded by smoke, changing winds, and uncertain information, they had to try and get…

I agree. I was hoping for some lessons or takeaways though, but maybe there is so much luck and randomness involved that it’s hard to generalize. But was it really the best choice to leave an area with other cars and people and rangers around and hike through the woods, camping overnight so close to a fire? Seems crazy, although maybe the chance of getting trapped would have been higher if they didn’t do that. Glad e…

You could argue that the 200 people who got themselves stuck at a lake and survived via helicopter rescue didn't exactly make better choices, they largely got lucky.

I don't necessarily think their decisions were terrible, but as far as reading it for lessons/critique goes:

- I read a lack of knowledge with the roads making decisionmaking harder. More research on their intended route and their possible alternate routes would have made things easier. (And the "downed bridge" is a planned bridge replacement with a published detour. That shouldn't have been a surprise to begin with). Lots of people do tons of research on the trails, alternates, have detailed maps, and so on, but don't do the same amount with their access routes.

- They should have had someone on watch in shifts in the overnight. If it comes that way and you're going to have a chance, it isn't going to be when the first moment you realize something's gotten worse is by waking up choking, in an inferno, or by not waking up at all.

- They should have gotten moving earlier. A few hours rest to recover isn't entirely ridiculous if they were unable to continue/couldn't follow the trail at night, but you don't need 9 hours of sleep and a leisurely 2 hour morning after waking up. Especially not when when you say "The smoke felt closer than the day before" for conditions.

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#43

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

gdubs wrote: post #32

Definitely a very risky time to be out in the wilderness, anywhere west of the Rocky Mountains. And that’s probably understating it. It’s really something to see the entire west coast on fire right now. We live up in a forested valley in northwest Oregon, and got blanketed with smoke yesterday. Happened quickly and was the worst smoke I’ve experienced since the Camp Fire blew into Los Altos, CA, a while back. Our are…

Yeah, the air in Portland last night took a nosedive pretty fast. It wasn't quite as bad as during the eagle creek fire, but pretty close.

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#44

Post by gpm »

volkl48 wrote: post #42
cactus2093 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I was hoping for some lessons or takeaways though, but maybe there is so much luck and randomness involved that it’s hard to generalize. But was it really the best choice to leave an area with other cars and people and rangers around and hike through the woods, camping overnight so close to a fire? Seems crazy, although maybe the chance of getting trapped would have been higher if they didn’t do that. Glad e…

You could argue that the 200 people who got themselves stuck at a lake and survived via helicopter rescue didn't exactly make better choices, they largely got lucky. I don't necessarily think their decisions were terrible, but as far as reading it for lessons/critique goes: - I read a lack of knowledge with the roads making decisionmaking harder. More research on their intended route and their possible alternate rout…

> They should have had someone on watch in shifts in the overnight

I don't think I agree with this.

It improves your very low chance of survival if the fire catches up with you during the night, slightly. But you're mostly screwed anyways. Forest fires tend to move faster than humans, especially in the dark. It means you are less effective in the morning and will likely increase the amount of time it takes to get out of there.

I'd elect for "we all sleep, we wake up slightly before first light to pack up and eat, we leave at first light.".

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#45

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

dvt wrote: post #37
cactus2093 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I was hoping for some lessons or takeaways though, but maybe there is so much luck and randomness involved that it’s hard to generalize. But was it really the best choice to leave an area with other cars and people and rangers around and hike through the woods, camping overnight so close to a fire? Seems crazy, although maybe the chance of getting trapped would have been higher if they didn’t do that. Glad e…

> maybe there is so much luck and randomness involved that it’s hard to generalize They were hiking in the mountains during a heatwave with already a few fires nearby. The takeaway is "don't be stupid" but I doubt they learned their lesson, because their particular situation was pretty low-key.

This is a pretty uncharitable opinion. The Creek Fire exploded to 130K acres in a couple days, definitely not typical.

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#47

Post by URSpider94 »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #31

I feel pretty dumb for reading this whole thing. I kept waiting for the part of this story where they said "yeah, maybe the first time people told us to turn around, or the second, or the third, we should have actually turned around". At least hindsight is supposed to be 20/20 :D Also, is it an "escape" if you walk toward something dangerous for longer than you should, and then turn around. D- guys. You made it, but…

I don’t know what you’re talking about. They literally turned around and tried to leave the very first time someone told them to do so. The rest of the trip was them trying various ways to get out that were blocked by fire.

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#48

Post by vondur »

yread wrote: post #4
kepler1 wrote: post #2

Maybe I'm just being harsh, but after reading several times and figuring out what was going on, it's an instagrammer's slight inconvenience and detour being dramatized (or implied, given the photos and hour-by-hour narrative) into a life-or-death hike out, yet with "smoked salmon and mussels accompanied by biryani rice". They had a weeklong backpacking trip planned, hiked to where they thought they would start it, en…

Yes, while complaining about 4000ft of elevation and 13 miles. I wonder what was their program for the rest of the week if that sounds like a lot

4k feet of elevation gain is a bunch, and 13 miles is no joke. I mountain bike regularly, and most of my rides average around 1300ft of gain. 4k feet would be a long tiring ride.

Re: Escape from Creek Fire

#50

Post by xiainx »

dvt wrote: post #39
xiainx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that we just experienced a heat wave that broke several daily and monthly temperature records. But this was a high pressure ridging event without much accompanying wind or thunderstorm activity. So the wildfire risk wasn't forecasted to be notably extreme, until today when the red flag warning sets in. But before you pick on that, the red flag warning is due to offshore winds, which would blow any fire a…

> So the wildfire risk wasn't forecasted to be notably extreme, until today when the red flag warning sets in. This is absolutely untrue. Sure, the red flag warning set in today, but wildfire risk was considered to be at very high levels for (quite literally) weeks. See Tweets from way before the Creek Fire: [1][2][3] Just mild research would indicate that hiking (for days) deep in the wilderness would be a bad idea.…

All of the points in my previous post still stand. This was not a notably risky fire-weather watch (which is part of why this fires behavior is so concerning), and the area where these folks were headed did not put them at particularly elevated risk. It's fine if you would have chosen not to go, but I probably would have made the same decision as these folks.

I'm not aware of any wilderness backpacker fatalities caused by wildfires in California. The hazards here are very different than those of avalanches or flash floods, which are actually usually easier to predict. Any experienced outdoors-person knows that. You can pick a bone with them for taking photographs, but I think their decision to continue with their hike (which started before the fire had even ignited!) was much more nuanced than "there was a heat wave." If you cancelled your trip any time there was an increased risk of something, you wouldn't get outdoors very often.

Also, there's only one 's' in the plural of "Sierra." The word "Sierras" is equivalent to "mountainses." ;-)

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